Gah sorry about that - have now set it so replies will auto go to the list!
Anyway the idea in terms of tickets is that they will be badges much like game cons with the colour setting them apart - weekend is one colour, friday another etc. Having under 18s a different colour means 8 different types of tickets which is doable.
Intending that the registration desk you must provide some form of age identification - then they wear the tickets and it avoids having to show your passport or whatever to everyone!
Yeah 14 sounds like a good age to stop at - means we have Under 15s, 15PG, 15's, 18's certs right?
Yeah cool your on the quiz group :) Anyone who wants in just say so!
John
On Sun, May 29, 2005 at 06:35:56PM +0100, James Broadhead wrote:
Not neccesarily - we could just have people at the door of each showing asking for id (passport/garda) for people who look dubious. (As I have no experience whatsoever, I haven't a clue what it's going to be like with regards to carrying around tickets etc. - obviously, if people will have to carry a ticket to get into screens, the Steve's suggestion is probably the best course)
I'd suggest a cut-off age of maybe 14 at the youngest - beyond that, children might get troublesome/disruptive during showings.
As an aside; I'd love to help with the quiz questions (evil grin) They should be general knowledge, but avoiding popular culture imo. (Much as, I imagine, ones at gaming cons are like)
On 5/29/05, AMS Committee ams@redbrick.dcu.ie wrote:
Right first thing to actually mention is that pazuzu has taken another of the anime group jobs - so only 1 more left there.
Ok so another cool thing has happened - a group over in the USA are doing an anime documentary and are intending to come over to europe to continue the documentary and want to go by EirtaKon as their first stop in Europe :) So they will be interviewing some staff and attendees, filming and such.
Another point has arose... what age limit should be imposed on the convention? Most UK cons run as 16+ but thats mainly due to insurance Im told. Well DCU handels that so we just have to consider what extra work that means for us. Thaed has volunteered as a Youth Leader if we are going to allow under 16s to attend.
One thing that comes to mind is that while we will be having certs put outside the showing rooms we will also have to have seperate badges (tickets) for the youths to make it easier to see who and who shouldnt be at a showing. During the day the bar will be closed except for the showings so they are fine there but all the night activites will be strictly 18+ anyway. We could have a show go on if we want and some staff dont want to help out in the pub quiz etc :)
Thoughts?
John
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Actually, doesn't having that many age-certs require an equivalent number of age-coloured tickets? On (almost no) further thought, 15 would be a far easier cut off age - just because of the 15's limit. That way we'd only need "under 18" and "18+".
Wouldn't it be easier to have tickets with two colours - day and age? Or would that just complicate things?
On 5/29/05, eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie wrote:
Gah sorry about that - have now set it so replies will auto go to the list!
Anyway the idea in terms of tickets is that they will be badges much like game cons with the colour setting them apart - weekend is one colour, friday another etc. Having under 18s a different colour means 8 different types of tickets which is doable.
Intending that the registration desk you must provide some form of age identification - then they wear the tickets and it avoids having to show your passport or whatever to everyone!
Yeah 14 sounds like a good age to stop at - means we have Under 15s, 15PG, 15's, 18's certs right?
Yeah cool your on the quiz group :) Anyone who wants in just say so!
John
On Sun, May 29, 2005 at 06:35:56PM +0100, James Broadhead wrote:
Not neccesarily - we could just have people at the door of each showing asking for id (passport/garda) for people who look dubious. (As I have no experience whatsoever, I haven't a clue what it's going to be like with regards to carrying around tickets etc. - obviously, if people will have to carry a ticket to get into screens, the Steve's suggestion is probably the best course)
I'd suggest a cut-off age of maybe 14 at the youngest - beyond that, children might get troublesome/disruptive during showings.
As an aside; I'd love to help with the quiz questions (evil grin) They should be general knowledge, but avoiding popular culture imo. (Much as, I imagine, ones at gaming cons are like)
On 5/29/05, AMS Committee ams@redbrick.dcu.ie wrote:
Right first thing to actually mention is that pazuzu has taken another of the anime group jobs - so only 1 more left there.
Ok so another cool thing has happened - a group over in the USA are doing an anime documentary and are intending to come over to europe to continue the documentary and want to go by EirtaKon as their first stop in Europe :) So they will be interviewing some staff and attendees, filming and such.
Another point has arose... what age limit should be imposed on the convention? Most UK cons run as 16+ but thats mainly due to insurance Im told. Well DCU handels that so we just have to consider what extra work that means for us. Thaed has volunteered as a Youth Leader if we are going to allow under 16s to attend.
One thing that comes to mind is that while we will be having certs put outside the showing rooms we will also have to have seperate badges (tickets) for the youths to make it easier to see who and who shouldnt be at a showing. During the day the bar will be closed except for the showings so they are fine there but all the night activites will be strictly 18+ anyway. We could have a show go on if we want and some staff dont want to help out in the pub quiz etc :)
Thoughts?
John
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-- [23:17 06/April/2004 #lobby] <Yossarian> Hrm, if I'm not winning 'sweetest ass' - and my ass is winning for being hairy in 'best hair' - then logic would dictate that drusilla has one hell of a hairy arse. *ponders*
Eirtakon-help mailing list Eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie http://lists.redbrick.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/eirtakon-help
Actually, doesn't having that many age-certs require an equivalent number of age-coloured tickets? On (almost no) further thought, 15 would be a far easier cut off age - just because of the 15's limit. That way we'd only need "under 18" and "18+".
Is there a legal requirement (as with the UK) to only show officially certified stuff, or can you self-certify other unclassified material (such as fansubs)?
One way to get around having lots of different badge types is to have an extra identifier on each badge - e.g. hole punched to denote type, coloured sticker, etc.
(this isn't a big deal if you're going to use plastic badge holders with paper inserts, but if wanted proper ID card jobs might come in handier)
Richard
That's a very good question... the IFI shows uncertified stuff, but presumably they have some kind of license(?) We could just slap an 18+ on anything that's unlicensed - I wouldn't particularly want to, but it's an easy way out ofthe problem.
On 5/29/05, Richard Phillips richard@ukquake.net wrote:
Actually, doesn't having that many age-certs require an equivalent number of age-coloured tickets? On (almost no) further thought, 15 would be a far easier cut off age - just because of the 15's limit. That way we'd only need "under 18" and "18+".
Is there a legal requirement (as with the UK) to only show officially certified stuff, or can you self-certify other unclassified material (such as fansubs)?
One way to get around having lots of different badge types is to have an extra identifier on each badge - e.g. hole punched to denote type, coloured sticker, etc.
(this isn't a big deal if you're going to use plastic badge holders with paper inserts, but if wanted proper ID card jobs might come in handier)
Richard
Eirtakon-help mailing list Eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie http://lists.redbrick.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/eirtakon-help
Uncertifed stuff can be shown at clubs and such thats why the IFI and various film festivals sell memberships so the tickets can be called memberships so thats not really an issue the issue is getting permission from the makers to show unlicenced stuff and they arent likely to give permission to show fansubbed versions of their shows
On 29/05/05, James Broadhead jamesbroadhead@gmail.com wrote:
That's a very good question... the IFI shows uncertified stuff, but presumably they have some kind of license(?) We could just slap an 18+ on anything that's unlicensed - I wouldn't particularly want to, but it's an easy way out ofthe problem.
On 5/29/05, Richard Phillips richard@ukquake.net wrote:
Actually, doesn't having that many age-certs require an equivalent number of age-coloured tickets? On (almost no) further thought, 15 would be a far easier cut off age - just because of the 15's limit. That way we'd only need "under 18" and "18+".
Is there a legal requirement (as with the UK) to only show officially certified stuff, or can you self-certify other unclassified material (such as fansubs)?
One way to get around having lots of different badge types is to have an extra identifier on each badge - e.g. hole punched to denote type, coloured sticker, etc.
(this isn't a big deal if you're going to use plastic badge holders with paper inserts, but if wanted proper ID card jobs might come in handier)
Richard
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Well they may allow a few eps of unlicensed stuff if its new - i.e. its the same as fan subs as its simply spreading the name around. Its really whatever the anime group can get - also on that point the anime group is now filled! Lev, Jim, and Paz will be sorting all that out :D
John
On Sun, May 29, 2005 at 08:36:38PM +0100, Stephen Fox wrote:
Uncertifed stuff can be shown at clubs and such thats why the IFI and various film festivals sell memberships so the tickets can be called memberships so thats not really an issue the issue is getting permission from the makers to show unlicenced stuff and they arent likely to give permission to show fansubbed versions of their shows
On 29/05/05, James Broadhead jamesbroadhead@gmail.com wrote:
That's a very good question... the IFI shows uncertified stuff, but presumably they have some kind of license(?) We could just slap an 18+ on anything that's unlicensed - I wouldn't particularly want to, but it's an easy way out ofthe problem.
On 5/29/05, Richard Phillips richard@ukquake.net wrote:
Actually, doesn't having that many age-certs require an equivalent number of age-coloured tickets? On (almost no) further thought, 15 would be a far easier cut off age - just because of the 15's limit. That way we'd only need "under 18" and "18+".
Is there a legal requirement (as with the UK) to only show officially certified stuff, or can you self-certify other unclassified material (such as fansubs)?
One way to get around having lots of different badge types is to have an extra identifier on each badge - e.g. hole punched to denote type, coloured sticker, etc.
(this isn't a big deal if you're going to use plastic badge holders with paper inserts, but if wanted proper ID card jobs might come in handier)
Richard
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Why would we need their permission? It's perfectly legal to show unlicenced content; although I'd be slightly dubious about doing it at a payed-for event.
On 5/29/05, Stephen Fox hybridchild@gmail.com wrote:
Uncertifed stuff can be shown at clubs and such thats why the IFI and various film festivals sell memberships so the tickets can be called memberships so thats not really an issue the issue is getting permission from the makers to show unlicenced stuff and they arent likely to give permission to show fansubbed versions of their shows
On 29/05/05, James Broadhead jamesbroadhead@gmail.com wrote:
That's a very good question... the IFI shows uncertified stuff, but presumably they have some kind of license(?) We could just slap an 18+ on anything that's unlicensed - I wouldn't particularly want to, but it's an easy way out ofthe problem.
On 5/29/05, Richard Phillips richard@ukquake.net wrote:
Actually, doesn't having that many age-certs require an equivalent number of age-coloured tickets? On (almost no) further thought, 15 would be a far easier cut off age - just because of the 15's limit. That way we'd only need "under 18" and "18+".
Is there a legal requirement (as with the UK) to only show officially certified stuff, or can you self-certify other unclassified material (such as fansubs)?
One way to get around having lots of different badge types is to have an extra identifier on each badge - e.g. hole punched to denote type, coloured sticker, etc.
(this isn't a big deal if you're going to use plastic badge holders with paper inserts, but if wanted proper ID card jobs might come in handier)
Richard
Eirtakon-help mailing list Eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie http://lists.redbrick.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/eirtakon-help
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-- We do not believe in a religion but we do believe in the existence of Hell That is because it truly exists in the galaxy… And it is in our hands Sobach Üémh Dor Ïuth on Abh Hell – Seikai no Senki II
http://www.geocities.com/vulpinehybrid/index.htm
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Nah fan subs are totally illegal Im afraid - unless you have permission from the distributors :)
John
On Sun, May 29, 2005 at 08:52:31PM +0100, James Broadhead wrote:
Why would we need their permission? It's perfectly legal to show unlicenced content; although I'd be slightly dubious about doing it at a payed-for event.
On 5/29/05, Stephen Fox hybridchild@gmail.com wrote:
Uncertifed stuff can be shown at clubs and such thats why the IFI and various film festivals sell memberships so the tickets can be called memberships so thats not really an issue the issue is getting permission from the makers to show unlicenced stuff and they arent likely to give permission to show fansubbed versions of their shows
On 29/05/05, James Broadhead jamesbroadhead@gmail.com wrote:
That's a very good question... the IFI shows uncertified stuff, but presumably they have some kind of license(?) We could just slap an 18+ on anything that's unlicensed - I wouldn't particularly want to, but it's an easy way out ofthe problem.
On 5/29/05, Richard Phillips richard@ukquake.net wrote:
Actually, doesn't having that many age-certs require an equivalent number of age-coloured tickets? On (almost no) further thought, 15 would be a far easier cut off age - just because of the 15's limit. That way we'd only need "under 18" and "18+".
Is there a legal requirement (as with the UK) to only show officially certified stuff, or can you self-certify other unclassified material (such as fansubs)?
One way to get around having lots of different badge types is to have an extra identifier on each badge - e.g. hole punched to denote type, coloured sticker, etc.
(this isn't a big deal if you're going to use plastic badge holders with paper inserts, but if wanted proper ID card jobs might come in handier)
Richard
Eirtakon-help mailing list Eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie http://lists.redbrick.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/eirtakon-help
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-- We do not believe in a religion but we do believe in the existence of Hell That is because it truly exists in the galaxy? And it is in our hands Sobach ??mh Dor ?uth on Abh Hell ? Seikai no Senki II
http://www.geocities.com/vulpinehybrid/index.htm
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On 29/05/05, James Broadhead jamesbroadhead@gmail.com wrote:
Why would we need their permission? It's perfectly legal to show unlicenced content; although I'd be slightly dubious about doing it at a payed-for event.
Its not fansubs are still illegal because its unauthorised copying and distrubution of copy written material people seem to think that just because its unlicenced for english release that they're legal but the japanese copyright still applies.
However some cons do show small ammounts of fansubs but as we are inviting anime companies we have to be careful if we do decide to show them, the idea is to only show very new stuff, from the October season, and only show the first ep by fansubbers that will drop the project when its licenced
Uncertifed stuff can be shown at clubs and such thats why the IFI and various film festivals sell memberships so the tickets can be called memberships so thats not really an issue the issue is getting permission from the makers to show unlicenced stuff and they arent likely to give permission to show fansubbed versions of their shows
Most Japanese companies (with a couple of exceptions) don't have major issues with screening fansubs of material not licenced in the US/UK. (at least, none of the "we're going to sue your ass" kind).
It certainly is illegal to show fansubs under the Berne Convention and other worldwide copyright law, however it is commonplace to show them (basically every UK Anime convention, rightly or wrongly, shows *vast* amounts of them).
Be careful about showing stuff that has been licenced in the US, but not in the UK. ADV Films in particular can be a bit thorny about that issue..
I'm not familiar with the law regarding classification in the RoI so unfortunately cannot comment on its implementation - however for example, at Q-Con I have taken the decision to screen *only* material that has been officially rated due to:
1) It is illegal in the UK to show unrated material, outside of certain special criteria
2) As the convention is a fairly 'public' event, and allows minors, screening only material which has been officially classified removes any comeback if "little johnny' gets offended by something he watches - any issues arising go to the classification body, not us.
3) Uncertainly over wether showing unclassified material may affect our events insurance coverage.
I honestly can't say how many of these issues affect EirtaKon, however it might be worth considering their impact (and then chucking them aside ;)
Richard
Be careful about showing stuff that has been licenced in the US, but not in the UK. ADV Films in particular can be a bit thorny about that issue..
Very good point that we should also take into account that everything licenced by Bandai in the US is licenced in europe by Beez, even if they dont release it in English, as they are a branch of Bandai Entertainment
Very good point that we should also take into account that everything licenced by Bandai in the US is licenced in europe by Beez, even if they dont release it in English, as they are a branch of Bandai Entertainment
I am currently working on a contact within Beez, so with any luck it should be possible to have screening permission for their titles for EirtaKon. (Beez are a somewhat elusive bunch, it has proved..)
Also not all titles will be dual licenced for the US/UK/Europe (not so much in Beez's case, but for ADV and others)
I am currently working on a contact within Beez, so with any luck it should be possible to have screening permission for their titles for EirtaKon. (Beez are a somewhat elusive bunch, it has proved..)
Yeah they're quite infamous for being next to impossible to contact and for being very unhelpful if you do manage to contact them
Also not all titles will be dual licenced for the US/UK/Europe (not so much in Beez's case, but for ADV and others)
Well for the last couple of years ADV have had a policy of getting world wide rights to all new shows they licenced so anything the picked up since early 2003 or so will be licenced for the Uk even if its not been relasesed of yet
Well, I've started looking into shows/movies/OVAs to show, but suddenly realised: how many hours (roughly) do I have to fill?
On 5/29/05, Stephen Fox hybridchild@gmail.com wrote:
I am currently working on a contact within Beez, so with any luck it should be possible to have screening permission for their titles for EirtaKon. (Beez are a somewhat elusive bunch, it has proved..)
Yeah they're quite infamous for being next to impossible to contact and for being very unhelpful if you do manage to contact them
Also not all titles will be dual licenced for the US/UK/Europe (not so much in Beez's case, but for ADV and others)
Well for the last couple of years ADV have had a policy of getting world wide rights to all new shows they licenced so anything the picked up since early 2003 or so will be licenced for the Uk even if its not been relasesed of yet
-- We do not believe in a religion but we do believe in the existence of Hell That is because it truly exists in the galaxy… And it is in our hands Sobach Üémh Dor Ïuth on Abh Hell – Seikai no Senki II
http://www.geocities.com/vulpinehybrid/index.htm
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So, 8 hours per day per video room? That's do-able.*
*As long as I get to dibs all the stuff I want to show quickly!
But wait; 6 video rooms? There are only 3 anime people afaik - am I wrong here?
On 5/30/05, Richard Phillips richard@ukquake.net wrote:
Well, I've started looking into shows/movies/OVAs to show, but suddenly realised: how many hours (roughly) do I have to fill?
previous calculations were.. 24hrs x 6 VR's = ~144 hours, if i remember correctly?
..in other words, A LOT :P
Richard
Eirtakon-help mailing list Eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie http://lists.redbrick.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/eirtakon-help
Ah you guys wont be in each room constantly - unless you want to :)
This is how the staff set up will work with the staff timetable!
When you guys have the anime list done up we will get each staff member to mark down which shows they wish to watch and the order also.
Using this we will arrange for someone to be in every screening. The Anime group will be spread out like this also or going from room to room - whatever they choose.
In the end there will be a nice table done up in the staff room which will be like
Screen 1 Monday 10am Akira, John Doyle 12pm Transformers : The Movie, James Broadhead
so we will see you who is monitoring which room and everyone will know which anime they are watching.
This I think should work well...any thoughts? This will all be put into a simple database and there will be an online section of the site to allow people to view everything or to just have their timetable brought up.
John
On Mon, May 30, 2005 at 04:18:21PM +0100, James Broadhead wrote:
So, 8 hours per day per video room? That's do-able.*
*As long as I get to dibs all the stuff I want to show quickly!
But wait; 6 video rooms? There are only 3 anime people afaik - am I wrong here?
On 5/30/05, Richard Phillips richard@ukquake.net wrote:
Well, I've started looking into shows/movies/OVAs to show, but suddenly realised: how many hours (roughly) do I have to fill?
previous calculations were.. 24hrs x 6 VR's = ~144 hours, if i remember correctly?
..in other words, A LOT :P
Richard
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Ah no - what I meant was that we can get that much decent anime fairly easily.
What're the thoughts on series? Shall we have some kind of marathons? Some series are quite suited to this, while others (Cowboy Bebop for example), are easy to show out of context. I'd prefer not to show half, or the first few of a story-driven series, but I guess that's up to the companies themselves.
/me draws john's attention to his ams email account.
Oh, and just for the record - you're not getting *me* to show the Transformers movie if you're off watching Akira ;)
On 5/30/05, John Doyle art_wolf@redbrick.dcu.ie wrote:
Ah you guys wont be in each room constantly - unless you want to :)
This is how the staff set up will work with the staff timetable!
When you guys have the anime list done up we will get each staff member to mark down which shows they wish to watch and the order also.
Using this we will arrange for someone to be in every screening. The Anime group will be spread out like this also or going from room to room - whatever they choose.
In the end there will be a nice table done up in the staff room which will be like
Screen 1 Monday 10am Akira, John Doyle 12pm Transformers : The Movie, James Broadhead
so we will see you who is monitoring which room and everyone will know which anime they are watching.
This I think should work well...any thoughts? This will all be put into a simple database and there will be an online section of the site to allow people to view everything or to just have their timetable brought up.
John
On Mon, May 30, 2005 at 04:18:21PM +0100, James Broadhead wrote:
So, 8 hours per day per video room? That's do-able.*
*As long as I get to dibs all the stuff I want to show quickly!
But wait; 6 video rooms? There are only 3 anime people afaik - am I wrong here?
On 5/30/05, Richard Phillips richard@ukquake.net wrote:
Well, I've started looking into shows/movies/OVAs to show, but suddenly realised: how many hours (roughly) do I have to fill?
previous calculations were.. 24hrs x 6 VR's = ~144 hours, if i remember correctly?
..in other words, A LOT :P
Richard
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-- [23:17 06/April/2004 #lobby] <Yossarian> Hrm, if I'm not winning 'sweetest ass' - and my ass is winning for being hairy in 'best hair' - then logic would dictate that drusilla has one hell of a hairy arse. *ponders*
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On Mon, May 30, 2005 at 05:32:24PM +0100, James Broadhead wrote:
Ah no - what I meant was that we can get that much decent anime fairly easily.
heh well it will be..interesting to fill that much up ;)
What're the thoughts on series? Shall we have some kind of marathons? Some series are quite suited to this, while others (Cowboy Bebop for example), are easy to show out of context. I'd prefer not to show half, or the first few of a story-driven series, but I guess that's up to the companies themselves.
Yeah its really up to the companies - if they are ok with a marathon I'd say full steam ahead! :D
/me draws john's attention to his ams email account.
sorted ;)
Oh, and just for the record - you're not getting *me* to show the Transformers movie if you're off watching Akira ;)
Oh dont worry - transformers is being reserved for the fan dubbing :D
John
On 5/30/05, John Doyle art_wolf@redbrick.dcu.ie wrote:
Ah you guys wont be in each room constantly - unless you want to :)
This is how the staff set up will work with the staff timetable!
When you guys have the anime list done up we will get each staff member to mark down which shows they wish to watch and the order also.
Using this we will arrange for someone to be in every screening. The Anime group will be spread out like this also or going from room to room - whatever they choose.
In the end there will be a nice table done up in the staff room which will be like
Screen 1 Monday 10am Akira, John Doyle 12pm Transformers : The Movie, James Broadhead
so we will see you who is monitoring which room and everyone will know which anime they are watching.
This I think should work well...any thoughts? This will all be put into a simple database and there will be an online section of the site to allow people to view everything or to just have their timetable brought up.
John
On Mon, May 30, 2005 at 04:18:21PM +0100, James Broadhead wrote:
So, 8 hours per day per video room? That's do-able.*
*As long as I get to dibs all the stuff I want to show quickly!
But wait; 6 video rooms? There are only 3 anime people afaik - am I wrong here?
On 5/30/05, Richard Phillips richard@ukquake.net wrote:
Well, I've started looking into shows/movies/OVAs to show, but suddenly realised: how many hours (roughly) do I have to fill?
previous calculations were.. 24hrs x 6 VR's = ~144 hours, if i remember correctly?
..in other words, A LOT :P
Richard
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-- [23:17 06/April/2004 #lobby] <Yossarian> Hrm, if I'm not winning 'sweetest ass' - and my ass is winning for being hairy in 'best hair' - then logic would dictate that drusilla has one hell of a hairy arse. *ponders*
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Oh, and just for the record - you're not getting *me* to show the Transformers movie if you're off watching Akira ;)
Oh dont worry - transformers is being reserved for the fan dubbing :D
John
Can I suggest something like Ebichu for that?
On 5/30/05, John Doyle art_wolf@redbrick.dcu.ie wrote:
Ah you guys wont be in each room constantly - unless you want to :)
This is how the staff set up will work with the staff timetable!
When you guys have the anime list done up we will get each staff member to mark down which shows they wish to watch and the order also.
Using this we will arrange for someone to be in every screening. The Anime group will be spread out like this also or going from room to room - whatever they choose.
In the end there will be a nice table done up in the staff room which will be like
Screen 1 Monday 10am Akira, John Doyle 12pm Transformers : The Movie, James Broadhead
so we will see you who is monitoring which room and everyone will know which anime they are watching.
This I think should work well...any thoughts? This will all be put into a simple database and there will be an online section of the site to allow people to view everything or to just have their timetable brought up.
John
On Mon, May 30, 2005 at 04:18:21PM +0100, James Broadhead wrote:
So, 8 hours per day per video room? That's do-able.*
*As long as I get to dibs all the stuff I want to show quickly!
But wait; 6 video rooms? There are only 3 anime people afaik - am I wrong here?
On 5/30/05, Richard Phillips richard@ukquake.net wrote:
Well, I've started looking into shows/movies/OVAs to show, but suddenly realised: how many hours (roughly) do I have to fill?
previous calculations were.. 24hrs x 6 VR's = ~144 hours, if i remember correctly?
..in other words, A LOT :P
Richard
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-- [23:17 06/April/2004 #lobby] <Yossarian> Hrm, if I'm not winning 'sweetest ass' - and my ass is winning for being hairy in 'best hair' - then logic would dictate that drusilla has one hell of a hairy arse. *ponders*
Eirtakon-help mailing list Eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie http://lists.redbrick.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/eirtakon-help
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-- [23:17 06/April/2004 #lobby] <Yossarian> Hrm, if I'm not winning 'sweetest ass' - and my ass is winning for being hairy in 'best hair' - then logic would dictate that drusilla has one hell of a hairy arse. *ponders*
Eirtakon-help mailing list Eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie http://lists.redbrick.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/eirtakon-help
Yeah cool your on the quiz group :) Anyone who wants in just say so!
Count me in i enjoyed doing the one for Leamhcon
Problem with this new system - I have no clue who just posted to it.
James (I opromise not to spam this much in future :p)
On 5/29/05, eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie wrote:
Yeah cool your on the quiz group :) Anyone who wants in just say so!
Count me in i enjoyed doing the one for Leamhcon
-- We do not believe in a religion but we do believe in the existence of Hell That is because it truly exists in the galaxy… And it is in our hands Sobach Üémh Dor Ïuth on Abh Hell – Seikai no Senki II
http://www.geocities.com/vulpinehybrid/index.htm
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Yeah damn so I see..
*tries a different combination of radio buttons*
lets see the result of THIS! :)
John
On Sun, May 29, 2005 at 07:15:43PM +0100, eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie wrote:
Problem with this new system - I have no clue who just posted to it.
James (I opromise not to spam this much in future :p)
On 5/29/05, eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie wrote:
Yeah cool your on the quiz group :) Anyone who wants in just say so!
Count me in i enjoyed doing the one for Leamhcon
-- We do not believe in a religion but we do believe in the existence of Hell That is because it truly exists in the galaxy? And it is in our hands Sobach ??mh Dor ?uth on Abh Hell ? Seikai no Senki II
http://www.geocities.com/vulpinehybrid/index.htm
Eirtakon-help mailing list Eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie http://lists.redbrick.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/eirtakon-help
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Well that seems to be working
Right trying to think up a way to allow people to buy tickets well pay for them mainly :) I'm suggesting a cut off point of 200 people to the event - yes I believe that we will get that many :)
Heres what was the idea so far :-
There will be a web page that will have the following info
Bank Account Details: --------------------- DCU Anime and Manga Society (AMS) AIB, Dublin City University Sort Code 93-22-21 Account Number xx xxx-xxx
If you are located outside Ireland and wish to purchase your ticket, use the following details:
Bank: AIB, Dublin City University, Ireland IBAN: AIBK 9322 21xx xxxx xx Swift: AIBKIE2D
You can pay for your ticket directly into the bank account. Please email your Name, Contact Number, Address, Age, Number of Tickets are what type of ticktes - Weekend, Friday etc.., Lodgement Reference number (the number written at the bottom of your slip) to the Treasurer to confirm your payment.
Come Friday, Saturday and Sunday there is a registration desk with a list of everyone who has paid in. The people must bring photo id, e.g. passport, garda id etc.. and show them to one of the people at the desk. They check through the list check them off if they are on it and give them a con pack.
This again brings in the age detail as discussed before but I'll leave that to the end.
Anyway thats how people pay with US. Now I'd say people can also buy tickets with other societies. The way this works is that the society buys X ammount of tickets, say 20, and sells them off to their members. If they want more they can purchase them if there are still under 200 attendees. This way we will get some immediate cash flow to help us in terms of advertising etc. As the society sells the tickets they give us the usual info - how many tickets, name, address etc... this can be done one at a time or whatever pleases that cmt.
If we go above 200 people they will be put on a reserve que so if someone pulls out the first person on the que gets the chance to buy a ticket. If we get a large ammount over 200 we can discuss about extending the 200 but I dont really see that as a problem.
Right now in terms of the ages and considering the places we will be advertising - Forbidden Planet, Sub City, Gaming Cons etc I dont see too many little children hearing about us. So I'm recommending having the convention being 12PG ;) I.e. we will break the showings up into their respective categories as well as the badges - the double colour should work fine! Anyone is welcome to the convention but 12's and under must be accompanied by an adult. So in terms of bages there must be the following :-
Age | Ticket | Age Colour | Ticket Color ------------------------------------------------ ADULT : | Weekend | Purple | Gold | Friday | Purple | Blue | Saturday | Purple | Green | Sunday | Purple | White ------------------------------------------------ 15-18 | Weekend | Black | Gold | Friday | Black | Blue | Saturday | Black | Green | Sunday | Black | White ------------------------------------------------ 12-15 | Weekend | Yellow | Gold | Friday | Yellow | Blue | Saturday | Yellow | Green | Sunday | Yellow | White ------------------------------------------------
12 | Weekend | Red | Gold
| Friday | Red | Blue | Saturday | Red | Green | Sunday | Red | White ------------------------------------------------
I've attached the idea of the colours but yes let me reassure everyone I DO NOT TOUCH COLOURS :) The ticket design etc will be for whoever wants that nice little job - and hopefully they have some photoshopage skills ;)
Either way that should be an easy way, if your uncertain about a person simply based on their height, if they should be in a screening or not. In terms of actually getting people to leave generally a simple 'yes, your not allowed' in here should do. If they are under 18 talk to one of the Youth Leaders who should be present as they are experienced. I'll be mailing around a document closer to the date about Safe Child Policy - its basic stuff like always have a witness to hand, dont shout etc. I'm sure Thaed will be much more knowledgeable in this area! :)
If the person is 18 and over and disturbing people ask them to please stop. If it continues ask both people to leave. If it looks like they will not leave peacefully.. hopefully this will never happen but always be prepared.. dont interfere - come get one of the cmt who will call security in. I've never had problems or seen such problems at gaming events so this is what I can think of. Anyone better ideas or procedures?
Thoughts so far? Hopefully i havnt left something half said there...
John
Id say that that will all work out fine. And as far as better procedures go i dont think that there are any. If a non-security person tries to usher them out they might get beligerant and cause an even bigger disturbance. Also you cant come to blows in any way shape or form or they can sue the asses off everyone in charge. As long as the security are experienced and dont mess up themselves then things should work out fine if such a problem arises. though it is doubtful at such an event.
The only possible time id suspect any such behaviour would be at some of the later events in the day which would invariably become 18s only anyway which would mean that they are subject to the same public order laws as the security and the security then would have some lee-way in getting rid of the troublemakers.
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All sounds pretty good indeed.
Too many badge colours to remember for me, however.. what about just having it written on, or otherwise indicated? that way could just have one badge template (and stock of badges) for all.
What's the *actual* attendance capacity that EirtaKon could take?
----- Original Message ----- From: "AMS Committee" ams@redbrick.dcu.ie To: "The Staff of EirtaKon" eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:52 PM Subject: [Eirtakon-help] Ticket Sales
Right trying to think up a way to allow people to buy tickets well pay for
them mainly :)
I'm suggesting a cut off point of 200 people to the event - yes I believe
that we will get
that many :)
Heres what was the idea so far :-
There will be a web page that will have the following info
Bank Account Details:
DCU Anime and Manga Society (AMS) AIB, Dublin City University Sort Code 93-22-21 Account Number xx xxx-xxx
If you are located outside Ireland and wish to purchase your ticket, use
the following details:
Bank: AIB, Dublin City University, Ireland IBAN: AIBK 9322 21xx xxxx xx Swift: AIBKIE2D
You can pay for your ticket directly into the bank account. Please email
your Name, Contact Number,
Address, Age, Number of Tickets are what type of ticktes - Weekend, Friday
etc.., Lodgement Reference number
(the number written at the bottom of your slip) to the Treasurer to
confirm your payment.
Come Friday, Saturday and Sunday there is a registration desk with a list
of everyone who has paid in.
The people must bring photo id, e.g. passport, garda id etc.. and show
them to one of the people at the desk.
They check through the list check them off if they are on it and give them
a con pack.
This again brings in the age detail as discussed before but I'll leave
that to the end.
Anyway thats how people pay with US. Now I'd say people can also buy
tickets with other societies. The way this
works is that the society buys X ammount of tickets, say 20, and sells
them off to their members. If they want
more they can purchase them if there are still under 200 attendees. This
way we will get some immediate cash
flow to help us in terms of advertising etc. As the society sells the
tickets they give us the usual info -
how many tickets, name, address etc... this can be done one at a time or
whatever pleases that cmt.
If we go above 200 people they will be put on a reserve que so if someone
pulls out the first person on the que
gets the chance to buy a ticket. If we get a large ammount over 200 we can
discuss about extending the 200
but I dont really see that as a problem.
Right now in terms of the ages and considering the places we will be
advertising - Forbidden Planet, Sub City,
Gaming Cons etc I dont see too many little children hearing about us. So
I'm recommending having the convention
being 12PG ;) I.e. we will break the showings up into their respective
categories as well as the badges - the
double colour should work fine! Anyone is welcome to the convention but
12's and under must be accompanied by
an adult. So in terms of bages there must be the following :-
Age | Ticket | Age Colour | Ticket Color
ADULT : | Weekend | Purple | Gold | Friday | Purple | Blue | Saturday | Purple | Green | Sunday | Purple | White
15-18 | Weekend | Black | Gold | Friday | Black | Blue | Saturday | Black | Green | Sunday | Black | White
12-15 | Weekend | Yellow | Gold | Friday | Yellow | Blue | Saturday | Yellow | Green | Sunday | Yellow | White
12 | Weekend | Red | Gold
| Friday | Red | Blue | Saturday | Red | Green | Sunday | Red | White
I've attached the idea of the colours but yes let me reassure everyone I
DO NOT TOUCH COLOURS :) The ticket design etc
will be for whoever wants that nice little job - and hopefully they have
some photoshopage skills ;)
Either way that should be an easy way, if your uncertain about a person
simply based on their height, if they should be in
a screening or not. In terms of actually getting people to leave generally
a simple 'yes, your not allowed' in here should do.
If they are under 18 talk to one of the Youth Leaders who should be
present as they are experienced. I'll be mailing around
a document closer to the date about Safe Child Policy - its basic stuff
like always have a witness to hand, dont
shout etc. I'm sure Thaed will be much more knowledgeable in this area! :)
If the person is 18 and over and disturbing people ask them to please
stop. If it continues ask both people to leave. If it
looks like they will not leave peacefully.. hopefully this will never
happen but always be prepared.. dont interfere - come
get one of the cmt who will call security in. I've never had problems or
seen such problems at gaming events so this is what
I can think of. Anyone better ideas or procedures?
Thoughts so far? Hopefully i havnt left something half said there...
John
________________ / \[===={ Anime & Manga }====] ______Soc_______/
[] Register at http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~ams
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----
Eirtakon-help mailing list Eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie http://lists.redbrick.dcu.ie/mailman/listinfo/eirtakon-help
hmm... 200 / 8 = 25 people per showing room, assuming they're all constantly at showings. How many people could actually fit inside the individual rooms? What happened to the 300 figure bandied around earlier?
May I recommend radios for staff members? It seems to work really well at Leprecon, and shouldn't be too expensive.
James
On 6/1/05, Richard Phillips richard@ukquake.net wrote:
All sounds pretty good indeed.
Too many badge colours to remember for me, however.. what about just having it written on, or otherwise indicated? that way could just have one badge template (and stock of badges) for all.
What's the *actual* attendance capacity that EirtaKon could take?
----- Original Message ----- From: "AMS Committee" ams@redbrick.dcu.ie To: "The Staff of EirtaKon" eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:52 PM Subject: [Eirtakon-help] Ticket Sales
Right trying to think up a way to allow people to buy tickets well pay for
them mainly :)
I'm suggesting a cut off point of 200 people to the event - yes I believe
that we will get
that many :)
Heres what was the idea so far :-
There will be a web page that will have the following info
Bank Account Details:
DCU Anime and Manga Society (AMS) AIB, Dublin City University Sort Code 93-22-21 Account Number xx xxx-xxx
If you are located outside Ireland and wish to purchase your ticket, use
the following details:
Bank: AIB, Dublin City University, Ireland IBAN: AIBK 9322 21xx xxxx xx Swift: AIBKIE2D
You can pay for your ticket directly into the bank account. Please email
your Name, Contact Number,
Address, Age, Number of Tickets are what type of ticktes - Weekend, Friday
etc.., Lodgement Reference number
(the number written at the bottom of your slip) to the Treasurer to
confirm your payment.
Come Friday, Saturday and Sunday there is a registration desk with a list
of everyone who has paid in.
The people must bring photo id, e.g. passport, garda id etc.. and show
them to one of the people at the desk.
They check through the list check them off if they are on it and give them
a con pack.
This again brings in the age detail as discussed before but I'll leave
that to the end.
Anyway thats how people pay with US. Now I'd say people can also buy
tickets with other societies. The way this
works is that the society buys X ammount of tickets, say 20, and sells
them off to their members. If they want
more they can purchase them if there are still under 200 attendees. This
way we will get some immediate cash
flow to help us in terms of advertising etc. As the society sells the
tickets they give us the usual info -
how many tickets, name, address etc... this can be done one at a time or
whatever pleases that cmt.
If we go above 200 people they will be put on a reserve que so if someone
pulls out the first person on the que
gets the chance to buy a ticket. If we get a large ammount over 200 we can
discuss about extending the 200
but I dont really see that as a problem.
Right now in terms of the ages and considering the places we will be
advertising - Forbidden Planet, Sub City,
Gaming Cons etc I dont see too many little children hearing about us. So
I'm recommending having the convention
being 12PG ;) I.e. we will break the showings up into their respective
categories as well as the badges - the
double colour should work fine! Anyone is welcome to the convention but
12's and under must be accompanied by
an adult. So in terms of bages there must be the following :-
Age | Ticket | Age Colour | Ticket Color
ADULT : | Weekend | Purple | Gold | Friday | Purple | Blue | Saturday | Purple | Green | Sunday | Purple | White
15-18 | Weekend | Black | Gold | Friday | Black | Blue | Saturday | Black | Green | Sunday | Black | White
12-15 | Weekend | Yellow | Gold | Friday | Yellow | Blue | Saturday | Yellow | Green | Sunday | Yellow | White
12 | Weekend | Red | Gold
| Friday | Red | Blue | Saturday | Red | Green | Sunday | Red | White
I've attached the idea of the colours but yes let me reassure everyone I
DO NOT TOUCH COLOURS :) The ticket design etc
will be for whoever wants that nice little job - and hopefully they have
some photoshopage skills ;)
Either way that should be an easy way, if your uncertain about a person
simply based on their height, if they should be in
a screening or not. In terms of actually getting people to leave generally
a simple 'yes, your not allowed' in here should do.
If they are under 18 talk to one of the Youth Leaders who should be
present as they are experienced. I'll be mailing around
a document closer to the date about Safe Child Policy - its basic stuff
like always have a witness to hand, dont
shout etc. I'm sure Thaed will be much more knowledgeable in this area! :)
If the person is 18 and over and disturbing people ask them to please
stop. If it continues ask both people to leave. If it
looks like they will not leave peacefully.. hopefully this will never
happen but always be prepared.. dont interfere - come
get one of the cmt who will call security in. I've never had problems or
seen such problems at gaming events so this is what
I can think of. Anyone better ideas or procedures?
Thoughts so far? Hopefully i havnt left something half said there...
John
________________ / \[===={ Anime & Manga }====] ______Soc_______/
[] Register at http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~ams
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Well radios might work but if they are used to keep costs down they should only be given out to certain areas where they might be needed. Like each screening room the main desk and the security and so forth. As few as possible but as many as would be needed.
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I think you've mistaken what Jon meant - the security he was talking about is the DCU's security force. But yeah, one per showing room, one at the gate, one for the tech guy and one for each comittee member would really help communication!
Anyway, consider them an investment; unless they all get stolen/broken(!) then they could easily be reused the next year.
On 6/1/05, Thomas Burke irish_dragonicus@hotmail.com wrote:
Well radios might work but if they are used to keep costs down they should only be given out to certain areas where they might be needed. Like each screening room the main desk and the security and so forth. As few as possible but as many as would be needed.
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I didnt misunderstand. its just if there is something wrong it would be easier for them to react if they are in contact constantly. or if they have their own gear just make sure the con gear is set to the same frequency.
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That would drive them absolutely insane! Nah, we'd never be able to do that. The best we could hope for would be to tell John, and then he'd be able to ring them or something (as the organiser).
James
On 6/1/05, Thomas Burke irish_dragonicus@hotmail.com wrote:
I didnt misunderstand. its just if there is something wrong itld be easier for them to react if they are in contact constantly. or if they have their own gear just make sure the con gear is set to the same frequency.
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When it comes to radios its best to only have the committe on them because that way the important people cna keep in touch without the the network becoming too cluttered and it would annoy people who are in the showings to have people talking into their radios all the time, and trust me on this you cant whisper into them so if your talking into them in a room when no one else is talking everyone will notice.
They are essential for the committee though
On 01/06/05, James Broadhead jamesbroadhead@gmail.com wrote:
That would drive them absolutely insane! Nah, we'd never be able to do that. The best we could hope for would be to tell John, and then he'd be able to ring them or something (as the organiser).
James
On 6/1/05, Thomas Burke irish_dragonicus@hotmail.com wrote:
I didnt misunderstand. its just if there is something wrong itld be easier for them to react if they are in contact constantly. or if they have their own gear just make sure the con gear is set to the same frequency.
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May I recommend radios for staff members? It seems to work really well at Leprecon, and shouldn't be too expensive.
QUB Dragonslayers has 10 PMR radio units + headsets, which i should (in theory) be able to make available for loan to EirtaKon.
I know from experience that it is very valuable to have real-time comms between key staff members, especially in fairly distributed events. Mobiles help a lot for sure, but it's not the whole story. Radio systems are basically considered essential equipment for quite a few cons dotted around the UK.
(naturally there are other implementation issues with 2-way radio networks, but after Q-Con i'll be able to give a more precise evaluation of how effective they are ;)
Richard
On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 03:13:37PM +0100, Richard Phillips wrote:
All sounds pretty good indeed.
Too many badge colours to remember for me, however.. what about just having it written on, or otherwise indicated? that way could just have one badge template (and stock of badges) for all.
Well the idea is that we are not peering at everyone entering a showing. Using the colours its generally far easier to spot someone whos ticket is not meant to be in that area then going up close and reading it - especailly considering where some people pin them ;D
What's the *actual* attendance capacity that EirtaKon could take? hmm... 200 / 8 = 25 people per showing room, assuming they're all constantly at showings. How many people could actually fit inside the individual rooms?
Well we arnt expecting all the rooms to be running concurrently :) For instance we have one room - T101 which is a theatre, with 400 seats. It also has a MASSIVE screen and a proper sound system. Previews and anything very good should be in here. Everything else will be inside the Student Center and two of the rooms will be bars which take ~70-100 people each. The other rooms are being converted into projector rooms but again they can take ~30-40 people.
What happened to the 300 figure bandied around earlier?
Well the 300 was all based on the idea of massive advertising previously but there has been little to none so far. I still believe that we could make 300 but this year we dont have the finacle backing to do the advertising campaign that we would need to draw in this number - I had talked to the public libraries who were willing to put up posters and we were considering how much it would cost for advertisment in papers etc..
I think you've mistaken what Jon meant - the security he was talking about is the DCU's security force. But yeah, one per showing room, one at the gate, one for the tech guy and one for each comittee member would really help communication!
Yeah Im hoping to find out if any DCU socs have something like this - unsure though :/ *big thumbs up at Richard* If your able to makes everything so much easier ^_^
Yeah the idea is you contact one of the cmt who will contact security.
*rejoices being in work AND on redbrick ^_^*
John
----- Original Message ----- From: "AMS Committee" ams@redbrick.dcu.ie To: "The Staff of EirtaKon" eirtakon-help@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:52 PM Subject: [Eirtakon-help] Ticket Sales
Right trying to think up a way to allow people to buy tickets well pay for
them mainly :)
I'm suggesting a cut off point of 200 people to the event - yes I believe
that we will get
that many :)
Heres what was the idea so far :-
There will be a web page that will have the following info
Bank Account Details:
DCU Anime and Manga Society (AMS) AIB, Dublin City University Sort Code 93-22-21 Account Number xx xxx-xxx
If you are located outside Ireland and wish to purchase your ticket, use
the following details:
Bank: AIB, Dublin City University, Ireland IBAN: AIBK 9322 21xx xxxx xx Swift: AIBKIE2D
You can pay for your ticket directly into the bank account. Please email
your Name, Contact Number,
Address, Age, Number of Tickets are what type of ticktes - Weekend, Friday
etc.., Lodgement Reference number
(the number written at the bottom of your slip) to the Treasurer to
confirm your payment.
Come Friday, Saturday and Sunday there is a registration desk with a list
of everyone who has paid in.
The people must bring photo id, e.g. passport, garda id etc.. and show
them to one of the people at the desk.
They check through the list check them off if they are on it and give them
a con pack.
This again brings in the age detail as discussed before but I'll leave
that to the end.
Anyway thats how people pay with US. Now I'd say people can also buy
tickets with other societies. The way this
works is that the society buys X ammount of tickets, say 20, and sells
them off to their members. If they want
more they can purchase them if there are still under 200 attendees. This
way we will get some immediate cash
flow to help us in terms of advertising etc. As the society sells the
tickets they give us the usual info -
how many tickets, name, address etc... this can be done one at a time or
whatever pleases that cmt.
If we go above 200 people they will be put on a reserve que so if someone
pulls out the first person on the que
gets the chance to buy a ticket. If we get a large ammount over 200 we can
discuss about extending the 200
but I dont really see that as a problem.
Right now in terms of the ages and considering the places we will be
advertising - Forbidden Planet, Sub City,
Gaming Cons etc I dont see too many little children hearing about us. So
I'm recommending having the convention
being 12PG ;) I.e. we will break the showings up into their respective
categories as well as the badges - the
double colour should work fine! Anyone is welcome to the convention but
12's and under must be accompanied by
an adult. So in terms of bages there must be the following :-
Age | Ticket | Age Colour | Ticket Color
ADULT : | Weekend | Purple | Gold | Friday | Purple | Blue | Saturday | Purple | Green | Sunday | Purple | White
15-18 | Weekend | Black | Gold | Friday | Black | Blue | Saturday | Black | Green | Sunday | Black | White
12-15 | Weekend | Yellow | Gold | Friday | Yellow | Blue | Saturday | Yellow | Green | Sunday | Yellow | White
12 | Weekend | Red | Gold
| Friday | Red | Blue | Saturday | Red | Green | Sunday | Red | White
I've attached the idea of the colours but yes let me reassure everyone I
DO NOT TOUCH COLOURS :) The ticket design etc
will be for whoever wants that nice little job - and hopefully they have
some photoshopage skills ;)
Either way that should be an easy way, if your uncertain about a person
simply based on their height, if they should be in
a screening or not. In terms of actually getting people to leave generally
a simple 'yes, your not allowed' in here should do.
If they are under 18 talk to one of the Youth Leaders who should be
present as they are experienced. I'll be mailing around
a document closer to the date about Safe Child Policy - its basic stuff
like always have a witness to hand, dont
shout etc. I'm sure Thaed will be much more knowledgeable in this area! :)
If the person is 18 and over and disturbing people ask them to please
stop. If it continues ask both people to leave. If it
looks like they will not leave peacefully.. hopefully this will never
happen but always be prepared.. dont interfere - come
get one of the cmt who will call security in. I've never had problems or
seen such problems at gaming events so this is what
I can think of. Anyone better ideas or procedures?
Thoughts so far? Hopefully i havnt left something half said there...
John
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