antisellafield

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January 2002

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[Antisellafield] RE: Forum on Europe
by Elaine.Byrne 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

But on the other hand, the 'Four of Us' are playing in Dolans on Friday night........ -----Original Message----- From: Edward Horgan [mailto:edward_horgan@hotmail.com] Sent: 15 January 2002 11:48 To: elaine.byrne(a)ul.ie; slack(a)redbrick.dcu.ie; victoria.firmo-fontan(a)ul.ie; alom(a)eircom.net; gluaiseacht(a)topica.com; antisellafield(a)prodigy.redbrick.dcu.ie; global_irl(a)yahoogroups.com; limerickforchange(a)topica.com Subject: Forum on Europe Apologies if you get this twice. Of course you could always read it twice! Ed. To: All those who value democracy Re: National Forum on Forum Dear people of this one world, The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick on Friday January 18th. In view of the importance of this forum and the relative lack of debate on the issue of a possible second Nice Treaty Referendum, it is essential that as many people as possible should attend as give their views as members of the audience. The main panel will consist of all the usual YES to Nice suspects, who will presumably tell us what we should think of Europe. Well to whom it may concern, if anybody out there is listening, the following are the views of Edward Horgan on Europe. The National Forum and Plan B for Europe The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick City Hall, on Friday, January 18th at 8pm. This is only a token road show by virtue of the fact that only six towns outside of Dublin are being visited. Because democracy in Ireland is so limited at local or regional level, this rare opportunity to have our voices heard on national and European matters should be availed of by as many people from the Mid West as possible. This session of the Forum is open to the public, so it is essential that there is a large turnout to voice the opinions of the people, or to support those who do have something to say, on how we believe that Europe should develop. Unfortunately, the Forum is being boycotted the Fine Gael party, and the primary participants are the other political parties in the Dail, with only limited representation allowed to the many other groups who successfully fought, and rejected, the Nice Treaty Referendum in June 2001. In spite of these limitations, the Forum has been very well chaired so far by Senator Maurice Hayes. First, I should declare my interest, I campaigned against the Nice Treaty in 2001, and will be campaigning against it again whenever it is forced upon us in another referendum. Many have argued, that it is undemocratic on the Government's behalf to force through a second Referendum in so short a time after the Irish people have made their decision. The argument that less than 40% of the people voted in the June 2001 Referendum is a bogus argument. That Referendum was very well publicised, so all the electorate had the opportunity to vote, but over 60% of them availed of their democratic right not to vote. Freedom is an essential prerequisite of democracy, but some commentators have even suggested that voting should be made compulsory. Should we also be compelled to vote against our own choice of candidates? Such practices have been common in non-democratic regimes. Given that a second Nice Treaty Referendum is likely in September 2002, the electorate should be informed of the choices they must make. Those who campaigned for a NO vote last time round were branded, leftist pinko anarchists, before the vote, and the electorate were branded as undereducated fools after the Referendum. We have been assured by esteemed political commentators that, with proper re-education, the electorate must surely get it right next time around. Chairman Mao Tse Tung would be pleased. His Cultural Revolution was based on such concepts. The Irish Commissioner in Brussels, Mr. Byrne, even has the cheek to publicly admit that the European Union had NO PLAN B, in the event of the Irish people rejecting Nice second time around. Well, I have news for the EU Commission, and for Commissioner Byrne; there is a PLAN B, and the Irish democratic electorate, who are one of the most astute electorates in Europe, should present this PLAN B to Europe when they say NO for a second time. First, the vast majority of the Irish people are not anti-European nor against the European Union. But they are against the current direction that they see the European Project taking, that is, the creation of an exclusive, European superpower, with its own Euro Army, and Euro Police to enforce a Fortress Europe. It will become a 'them and us', the 'West against the Rest', the contrived Clash of Civilizations, that is being touted by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. War is being waged in our name against innocent people in Afghanistan and elsewhere. The vast majority of the Irish people rejected those who waged war in Northern Ireland in our name and we reject those who claim to wage war on behalf of so-called Western Civilization. We also reject global terrorism, from all sources, just as we rejected Irish terrorism. Because of our history of immigration, missionary and aid work in the third or majority world, and United Nations peace-keeping, the Irish people have an unusually broad global view of humanity and have a much better understanding of International Relations than many of our European neighbours. We are not the un-travelled, under-educated fools that the unholy alliance that advocated Yes for Nice last time around, claimed that we were. This alliance included the Church, the state, the main political parties, the unions, all business interests, all the so-called social partners. They all got it wrong. Nice Treaty No. 2. Referendum Rejection - PLAN B, should be as follows. First on the positive side, the Irish electorate support the following: 1. Yes to economic integration of Europe, including the Euro, which makes a whole lot of sense. 2. Yes to the broadening of democratic political integration, where the voices of the people of Europe can be heard and acted upon. This is urgently needed, but nowhere near being achieved. We need more democracy and less 'presidential dictats' from European Councils and Commissions, or from Dublin. 3. Yes to inclusive expansion of Europe, for the benefit of humanity and not just for the elite of Western Europe, is a vital ingredient for global peace. 4. Yes to a multi-cultural and multi-religious Europe which is the only safe Europe in the long-term. 5. Yes to a Europe that supports sustainable development in all regions of the world. 6. Yes to a Europe that promotes safe renewable energy that does not destroy the environment. 7. Yes to a Europe that supports a reformed and truly representative United Nations as the only overseer of global collective security, backed up by a just and wise system of international law. 8. Yes to regional security organisations such as the OSCE (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe), and OAU (Organisation of African Unity) which should be strengthened but placed under clear United Nations control. 9. Yes to a positive Irish Neutrality which promotes global peace, justice, and an immediate withdrawal of Irish Defence Forces involvement with the NATO alliance and the European Rapid Reaction Force (ERRF). 10. Yes to the inclusion of a Protocol exempting Ireland from membership of the ERRF. On the negative side, the Irish electorate must tell Europe that the following are not acceptable by saying no to the following: 1. No to the concept of an exclusive superior European Christian super-state. 2. No to deepening of political integration, including the ceding of sovereignty, authority, and democracy, up to central autocratic political structures effectively controlled by the Germany, France and Britain. 3. No to a European police state, that excludes genuine refugees and justified economic migrants, while exploiting cheap (almost slave) labour, from and in, the majority other world outside Europe. Fortress Europe must be dismantled. 4. No to those who say that Ireland should join nuclear military alliances such as NATO and the European Rapid Reaction Force, and no the proliferation of Nuclear weapons, star wars, and gross over-expenditure on weapons systems that destabilise the world and threaten the future of humankind. 5. No to the use of Shannon airport to make war on innocent people in our name. 6. No to the gross over-exploitation of the earth's resources for the benefit of the few elite in the West and at the expense of the many in 'the Rest'. 7. No to nuclear power, and the unsustainable exploitation of carbon fuels including peat power stations. NO, NO, NO, to Sellafield. 8. The Irish electorate must continue to say no to all those who think that they are too stupid to understand politics and to those in 'Ivory Fortresses', who thing that only they know what is best for the rest of us. These are not simple concepts, but they are vital for the future of all Europeans and the future of all humanity. Twice in the last century, Europe was militarised, mobilised and polarised, and then laid to waste in two World Wars. Now, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, we are about to allow the same type of circumstances to develop. By a fluke of our history, the Irish people are the only electorate in all of Europe who are allowed to have a say in the future of Europe. All the other fourteen governments did not trust their people to carry out the wishes of their political elites. We owe it to ourselves and also to the people of the other fourteen EU countries to call a halt to this Euro Superstate, and to develop a Europe of the people, for us, the people. Most of all we owe it to the people outside the present EU, to create an inclusive Europe that will not exploit and threaten them with false promised of MAD nuclear security. Is this all too complicate for you, the people, to understand? I don't think so. Please come along to the National Forum on Europe at 8pm this Friday, in the City Hall, Limerick, and tell Europe what you want. Final message to Dublin and Europe: For gods sake listen. Edward Horgan To: All those who value democracy Re: National Forum on Forum Dear people of this one world, The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick on Friday January 18th. In view of the importance of this forum and the relative lack of debate on the issue of a possible second Nice Treaty Referendum, it is essential that as many people as possible should attend as give their views as members of the audience. The main panel will consist of all the usual YES to Nice suspects, who will presumably tell us what we should think of Europe. Well to whom it may concern, if anybody out there is listening, the following are the views of Edward Horgan on Europe. The National Forum and Plan B for Europe The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick City Hall, on Friday, January 18th at 8pm. This is only a token road show by virtue of the fact that only six towns outside of Dublin are being visited. Because democracy in Ireland is so limited at local or regional level, this rare opportunity to have our voices heard on national and European matters should be availed of by as many people from the Mid West as possible. This session of the Forum is open to the public, so it is essential that there is a large turnout to voice the opinions of the people, or to support those who do have something to say, on how we believe that Europe should develop. Unfortunately, the Forum is being boycotted the Fine Gael party, and the primary participants are the other political parties in the Dail, with only limited representation allowed to the many other groups who successfully fought, and rejected, the Nice Treaty Referendum in June 2001. In spite of these limitations, the Forum has been very well chaired so far by Senator Maurice Hayes. First, I should declare my interest, I campaigned against the Nice Treaty in 2001, and will be campaigning against it again whenever it is forced upon us in another referendum. Many have argued, that it is undemocratic on the Government's behalf to force through a second Referendum in so short a time after the Irish people have made their decision. The argument that less than 40% of the people voted in the June 2001 Referendum is a bogus argument. That Referendum was very well publicised, so all the electorate had the opportunity to vote, but over 60% of them availed of their democratic right not to vote. Freedom is an essential prerequisite of democracy, but some commentators have even suggested that voting should be made compulsory. Should we also be compelled to vote against our own choice of candidates? Such practices have been common in non-democratic regimes. Given that a second Nice Treaty Referendum is likely in September 2002, the electorate should be informed of the choices they must make. Those who campaigned for a NO vote last time round were branded, leftist pinko anarchists, before the vote, and the electorate were branded as undereducated fools after the Referendum. We have been assured by esteemed political commentators that, with proper re-education, the electorate must surely get it right next time around. Chairman Mao Tse Tung would be pleased. His Cultural Revolution was based on such concepts. The Irish Commissioner in Brussels, Mr. Byrne, even has the cheek to publicly admit that the European Union had NO PLAN B, in the event of the Irish people rejecting Nice second time around. Well, I have news for the EU Commission, and for Commissioner Byrne; there is a PLAN B, and the Irish democratic electorate, who are one of the most astute electorates in Europe, should present this PLAN B to Europe when they say NO for a second time. First, the vast majority of the Irish people are not anti-European nor against the European Union. But they are against the current direction that they see the European Project taking, that is, the creation of an exclusive, European superpower, with its own Euro Army, and Euro Police to enforce a Fortress Europe. It will become a 'them and us', the 'West against the Rest', the contrived Clash of Civilizations, that is being touted by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. War is being waged in our name against innocent people in Afghanistan and elsewhere. The vast majority of the Irish people rejected those who waged war in Northern Ireland in our name and we reject those who claim to wage war on behalf of so-called Western Civilization. We also reject global terrorism, from all sources, just as we rejected Irish terrorism. Because of our history of immigration, missionary and aid work in the third or majority world, and United Nations peace-keeping, the Irish people have an unusually broad global view of humanity and have a much better understanding of International Relations than many of our European neighbours. We are not the un-travelled, under-educated fools that the unholy alliance that advocated Yes for Nice last time around, claimed that we were. This alliance included the Church, the state, the main political parties, the unions, all business interests, all the so-called social partners. They all got it wrong. Nice Treaty No. 2. Referendum Rejection - PLAN B, should be as follows. First on the positive side, the Irish electorate support the following: 1. Yes to economic integration of Europe, including the Euro, which makes a whole lot of sense. 2. Yes to the broadening of democratic political integration, where the voices of the people of Europe can be heard and acted upon. This is urgently needed, but nowhere near being achieved. We need more democracy and less 'presidential dictats' from European Councils and Commissions, or from Dublin. 3. Yes to inclusive expansion of Europe, for the benefit of humanity and not just for the elite of Western Europe, is a vital ingredient for global peace. 4. Yes to a multi-cultural and multi-religious Europe which is the only safe Europe in the long-term. 5. Yes to a Europe that supports sustainable development in all regions of the world. 6. Yes to a Europe that promotes safe renewable energy that does not destroy the environment. 7. Yes to a Europe that supports a reformed and truly representative United Nations as the only overseer of global collective security, backed up by a just and wise system of international law. 8. Yes to regional security organisations such as the OSCE (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe), and OAU (Organisation of African Unity) which should be strengthened but placed under clear United Nations control. 9. Yes to a positive Irish Neutrality which promotes global peace, justice, and an immediate withdrawal of Irish Defence Forces involvement with the NATO alliance and the European Rapid Reaction Force (ERRF). 10. Yes to the inclusion of a Protocol exempting Ireland from membership of the ERRF. On the negative side, the Irish electorate must tell Europe that the following are not acceptable by saying no to the following: 1. No to the concept of an exclusive superior European Christian super-state. 2. No to deepening of political integration, including the ceding of sovereignty, authority, and democracy, up to central autocratic political structures effectively controlled by the Germany, France and Britain. 3. No to a European police state, that excludes genuine refugees and justified economic migrants, while exploiting cheap (almost slave) labour, from and in, the majority other world outside Europe. Fortress Europe must be dismantled. 4. No to those who say that Ireland should join nuclear military alliances such as NATO and the European Rapid Reaction Force, and no the proliferation of Nuclear weapons, star wars, and gross over-expenditure on weapons systems that destabilise the world and threaten the future of humankind. 5. No to the use of Shannon airport to make war on innocent people in our name. 6. No to the gross over-exploitation of the earth's resources for the benefit of the few elite in the West and at the expense of the many in 'the Rest'. 7. No to nuclear power, and the unsustainable exploitation of carbon fuels including peat power stations. NO, NO, NO, to Sellafield. 8. The Irish electorate must continue to say no to all those who think that they are too stupid to understand politics and to those in 'Ivory Fortresses', who thing that only they know what is best for the rest of us. These are not simple concepts, but they are vital for the future of all Europeans and the future of all humanity. Twice in the last century, Europe was militarised, mobilised and polarised, and then laid to waste in two World Wars. Now, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, we are about to allow the same type of circumstances to develop. By a fluke of our history, the Irish people are the only electorate in all of Europe who are allowed to have a say in the future of Europe. All the other fourteen governments did not trust their people to carry out the wishes of their political elites. We owe it to ourselves and also to the people of the other fourteen EU countries to call a halt to this Euro Superstate, and to develop a Europe of the people, for us, the people. Most of all we owe it to the people outside the present EU, to create an inclusive Europe that will not exploit and threaten them with false promised of MAD nuclear security. Is this all too complicate for you, the people, to understand? I don't think so. Please come along to the National Forum on Europe at 8pm this Friday, in the City Hall, Limerick, and tell Europe what you want. Final message to Dublin and Europe: For gods sake listen. Edward Horgan To: All those who value democracy Re: National Forum on Forum Dear people of this one world, The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick on Friday January 18th. In view of the importance of this forum and the relative lack of debate on the issue of a possible second Nice Treaty Referendum, it is essential that as many people as possible should attend as give their views as members of the audience. The main panel will consist of all the usual YES to Nice suspects, who will presumably tell us what we should think of Europe. Well to whom it may concern, if anybody out there is listening, the following are the views of Edward Horgan on Europe. The National Forum and Plan B for Europe The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick City Hall, on Friday, January 18th at 8pm. This is only a token road show by virtue of the fact that only six towns outside of Dublin are being visited. Because democracy in Ireland is so limited at local or regional level, this rare opportunity to have our voices heard on national and European matters should be availed of by as many people from the Mid West as possible. This session of the Forum is open to the public, so it is essential that there is a large turnout to voice the opinions of the people, or to support those who do have something to say, on how we believe that Europe should develop. Unfortunately, the Forum is being boycotted the Fine Gael party, and the primary participants are the other political parties in the Dail, with only limited representation allowed to the many other groups who successfully fought, and rejected, the Nice Treaty Referendum in June 2001. In spite of these limitations, the Forum has been very well chaired so far by Senator Maurice Hayes. First, I should declare my interest, I campaigned against the Nice Treaty in 2001, and will be campaigning against it again whenever it is forced upon us in another referendum. Many have argued, that it is undemocratic on the Government's behalf to force through a second Referendum in so short a time after the Irish people have made their decision. The argument that less than 40% of the people voted in the June 2001 Referendum is a bogus argument. That Referendum was very well publicised, so all the electorate had the opportunity to vote, but over 60% of them availed of their democratic right not to vote. Freedom is an essential prerequisite of democracy, but some commentators have even suggested that voting should be made compulsory. Should we also be compelled to vote against our own choice of candidates? Such practices have been common in non-democratic regimes. Given that a second Nice Treaty Referendum is likely in September 2002, the electorate should be informed of the choices they must make. Those who campaigned for a NO vote last time round were branded, leftist pinko anarchists, before the vote, and the electorate were branded as undereducated fools after the Referendum. We have been assured by esteemed political commentators that, with proper re-education, the electorate must surely get it right next time around. Chairman Mao Tse Tung would be pleased. His Cultural Revolution was based on such concepts. The Irish Commissioner in Brussels, Mr. Byrne, even has the cheek to publicly admit that the European Union had NO PLAN B, in the event of the Irish people rejecting Nice second time around. Well, I have news for the EU Commission, and for Commissioner Byrne; there is a PLAN B, and the Irish democratic electorate, who are one of the most astute electorates in Europe, should present this PLAN B to Europe when they say NO for a second time. First, the vast majority of the Irish people are not anti-European nor against the European Union. But they are against the current direction that they see the European Project taking, that is, the creation of an exclusive, European superpower, with its own Euro Army, and Euro Police to enforce a Fortress Europe. It will become a 'them and us', the 'West against the Rest', the contrived Clash of Civilizations, that is being touted by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. War is being waged in our name against innocent people in Afghanistan and elsewhere. The vast majority of the Irish people rejected those who waged war in Northern Ireland in our name and we reject those who claim to wage war on behalf of so-called Western Civilization. We also reject global terrorism, from all sources, just as we rejected Irish terrorism. Because of our history of immigration, missionary and aid work in the third or majority world, and United Nations peace-keeping, the Irish people have an unusually broad global view of humanity and have a much better understanding of International Relations than many of our European neighbours. We are not the un-travelled, under-educated fools that the unholy alliance that advocated Yes for Nice last time around, claimed that we were. This alliance included the Church, the state, the main political parties, the unions, all business interests, all the so-called social partners. They all got it wrong. Nice Treaty No. 2. Referendum Rejection - PLAN B, should be as follows. First on the positive side, the Irish electorate support the following: 1. Yes to economic integration of Europe, including the Euro, which makes a whole lot of sense. 2. Yes to the broadening of democratic political integration, where the voices of the people of Europe can be heard and acted upon. This is urgently needed, but nowhere near being achieved. We need more democracy and less 'presidential dictats' from European Councils and Commissions, or from Dublin. 3. Yes to inclusive expansion of Europe, for the benefit of humanity and not just for the elite of Western Europe, is a vital ingredient for global peace. 4. Yes to a multi-cultural and multi-religious Europe which is the only safe Europe in the long-term. 5. Yes to a Europe that supports sustainable development in all regions of the world. 6. Yes to a Europe that promotes safe renewable energy that does not destroy the environment. 7. Yes to a Europe that supports a reformed and truly representative United Nations as the only overseer of global collective security, backed up by a just and wise system of international law. 8. Yes to regional security organisations such as the OSCE (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe), and OAU (Organisation of African Unity) which should be strengthened but placed under clear United Nations control. 9. Yes to a positive Irish Neutrality which promotes global peace, justice, and an immediate withdrawal of Irish Defence Forces involvement with the NATO alliance and the European Rapid Reaction Force (ERRF). 10. Yes to the inclusion of a Protocol exempting Ireland from membership of the ERRF. On the negative side, the Irish electorate must tell Europe that the following are not acceptable by saying no to the following: 1. No to the concept of an exclusive superior European Christian super-state. 2. No to deepening of political integration, including the ceding of sovereignty, authority, and democracy, up to central autocratic political structures effectively controlled by the Germany, France and Britain. 3. No to a European police state, that excludes genuine refugees and justified economic migrants, while exploiting cheap (almost slave) labour, from and in, the majority other world outside Europe. Fortress Europe must be dismantled. 4. No to those who say that Ireland should join nuclear military alliances such as NATO and the European Rapid Reaction Force, and no the proliferation of Nuclear weapons, star wars, and gross over-expenditure on weapons systems that destabilise the world and threaten the future of humankind. 5. No to the use of Shannon airport to make war on innocent people in our name. 6. No to the gross over-exploitation of the earth's resources for the benefit of the few elite in the West and at the expense of the many in 'the Rest'. 7. No to nuclear power, and the unsustainable exploitation of carbon fuels including peat power stations. NO, NO, NO, to Sellafield. 8. The Irish electorate must continue to say no to all those who think that they are too stupid to understand politics and to those in 'Ivory Fortresses', who thing that only they know what is best for the rest of us. These are not simple concepts, but they are vital for the future of all Europeans and the future of all humanity. Twice in the last century, Europe was militarised, mobilised and polarised, and then laid to waste in two World Wars. Now, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, we are about to allow the same type of circumstances to develop. By a fluke of our history, the Irish people are the only electorate in all of Europe who are allowed to have a say in the future of Europe. All the other fourteen governments did not trust their people to carry out the wishes of their political elites. We owe it to ourselves and also to the people of the other fourteen EU countries to call a halt to this Euro Superstate, and to develop a Europe of the people, for us, the people. Most of all we owe it to the people outside the present EU, to create an inclusive Europe that will not exploit and threaten them with false promised of MAD nuclear security. Is this all too complicate for you, the people, to understand? I don't think so. Please come along to the National Forum on Europe at 8pm this Friday, in the City Hall, Limerick, and tell Europe what you want. Final message to Dublin and Europe: For gods sake listen. Edward Horgan To: All those who value democracy Re: National Forum on Forum Dear people of this one world, The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick on Friday January 18th. In view of the importance of this forum and the relative lack of debate on the issue of a possible second Nice Treaty Referendum, it is essential that as many people as possible should attend as give their views as members of the audience. The main panel will consist of all the usual YES to Nice suspects, who will presumably tell us what we should think of Europe. Well to whom it may concern, if anybody out there is listening, the following are the views of Edward Horgan on Europe. The National Forum and Plan B for Europe The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick City Hall, on Friday, January 18th at 8pm. This is only a token road show by virtue of the fact that only six towns outside of Dublin are being visited. Because democracy in Ireland is so limited at local or regional level, this rare opportunity to have our voices heard on national and European matters should be availed of by as many people from the Mid West as possible. This session of the Forum is open to the public, so it is essential that there is a large turnout to voice the opinions of the people, or to support those who do have something to say, on how we believe that Europe should develop. Unfortunately, the Forum is being boycotted the Fine Gael party, and the primary participants are the other political parties in the Dail, with only limited representation allowed to the many other groups who successfully fought, and rejected, the Nice Treaty Referendum in June 2001. In spite of these limitations, the Forum has been very well chaired so far by Senator Maurice Hayes. First, I should declare my interest, I campaigned against the Nice Treaty in 2001, and will be campaigning against it again whenever it is forced upon us in another referendum. Many have argued, that it is undemocratic on the Government's behalf to force through a second Referendum in so short a time after the Irish people have made their decision. The argument that less than 40% of the people voted in the June 2001 Referendum is a bogus argument. That Referendum was very well publicised, so all the electorate had the opportunity to vote, but over 60% of them availed of their democratic right not to vote. Freedom is an essential prerequisite of democracy, but some commentators have even suggested that voting should be made compulsory. Should we also be compelled to vote against our own choice of candidates? Such practices have been common in non-democratic regimes. Given that a second Nice Treaty Referendum is likely in September 2002, the electorate should be informed of the choices they must make. Those who campaigned for a NO vote last time round were branded, leftist pinko anarchists, before the vote, and the electorate were branded as undereducated fools after the Referendum. We have been assured by esteemed political commentators that, with proper re-education, the electorate must surely get it right next time around. Chairman Mao Tse Tung would be pleased. His Cultural Revolution was based on such concepts. The Irish Commissioner in Brussels, Mr. Byrne, even has the cheek to publicly admit that the European Union had NO PLAN B, in the event of the Irish people rejecting Nice second time around. Well, I have news for the EU Commission, and for Commissioner Byrne; there is a PLAN B, and the Irish democratic electorate, who are one of the most astute electorates in Europe, should present this PLAN B to Europe when they say NO for a second time. First, the vast majority of the Irish people are not anti-European nor against the European Union. But they are against the current direction that they see the European Project taking, that is, the creation of an exclusive, European superpower, with its own Euro Army, and Euro Police to enforce a Fortress Europe. It will become a 'them and us', the 'West against the Rest', the contrived Clash of Civilizations, that is being touted by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. War is being waged in our name against innocent people in Afghanistan and elsewhere. The vast majority of the Irish people rejected those who waged war in Northern Ireland in our name and we reject those who claim to wage war on behalf of so-called Western Civilization. We also reject global terrorism, from all sources, just as we rejected Irish terrorism. Because of our history of immigration, missionary and aid work in the third or majority world, and United Nations peace-keeping, the Irish people have an unusually broad global view of humanity and have a much better understanding of International Relations than many of our European neighbours. We are not the un-travelled, under-educated fools that the unholy alliance that advocated Yes for Nice last time around, claimed that we were. This alliance included the Church, the state, the main political parties, the unions, all business interests, all the so-called social partners. They all got it wrong. Nice Treaty No. 2. Referendum Rejection - PLAN B, should be as follows. First on the positive side, the Irish electorate support the following: 1. Yes to economic integration of Europe, including the Euro, which makes a whole lot of sense. 2. Yes to the broadening of democratic political integration, where the voices of the people of Europe can be heard and acted upon. This is urgently needed, but nowhere near being achieved. We need more democracy and less 'presidential dictats' from European Councils and Commissions, or from Dublin. 3. Yes to inclusive expansion of Europe, for the benefit of humanity and not just for the elite of Western Europe, is a vital ingredient for global peace. 4. Yes to a multi-cultural and multi-religious Europe which is the only safe Europe in the long-term. 5. Yes to a Europe that supports sustainable development in all regions of the world. 6. Yes to a Europe that promotes safe renewable energy that does not destroy the environment. 7. Yes to a Europe that supports a reformed and truly representative United Nations as the only overseer of global collective security, backed up by a just and wise system of international law. 8. Yes to regional security organisations such as the OSCE (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe), and OAU (Organisation of African Unity) which should be strengthened but placed under clear United Nations control. 9. Yes to a positive Irish Neutrality which promotes global peace, justice, and an immediate withdrawal of Irish Defence Forces involvement with the NATO alliance and the European Rapid Reaction Force (ERRF). 10. Yes to the inclusion of a Protocol exempting Ireland from membership of the ERRF. On the negative side, the Irish electorate must tell Europe that the following are not acceptable by saying no to the following: 1. No to the concept of an exclusive superior European Christian super-state. 2. No to deepening of political integration, including the ceding of sovereignty, authority, and democracy, up to central autocratic political structures effectively controlled by the Germany, France and Britain. 3. No to a European police state, that excludes genuine refugees and justified economic migrants, while exploiting cheap (almost slave) labour, from and in, the majority other world outside Europe. Fortress Europe must be dismantled. 4. No to those who say that Ireland should join nuclear military alliances such as NATO and the European Rapid Reaction Force, and no the proliferation of Nuclear weapons, star wars, and gross over-expenditure on weapons systems that destabilise the world and threaten the future of humankind. 5. No to the use of Shannon airport to make war on innocent people in our name. 6. No to the gross over-exploitation of the earth's resources for the benefit of the few elite in the West and at the expense of the many in 'the Rest'. 7. No to nuclear power, and the unsustainable exploitation of carbon fuels including peat power stations. NO, NO, NO, to Sellafield. 8. The Irish electorate must continue to say no to all those who think that they are too stupid to understand politics and to those in 'Ivory Fortresses', who thing that only they know what is best for the rest of us. These are not simple concepts, but they are vital for the future of all Europeans and the future of all humanity. Twice in the last century, Europe was militarised, mobilised and polarised, and then laid to waste in two World Wars. Now, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, we are about to allow the same type of circumstances to develop. By a fluke of our history, the Irish people are the only electorate in all of Europe who are allowed to have a say in the future of Europe. All the other fourteen governments did not trust their people to carry out the wishes of their political elites. We owe it to ourselves and also to the people of the other fourteen EU countries to call a halt to this Euro Superstate, and to develop a Europe of the people, for us, the people. Most of all we owe it to the people outside the present EU, to create an inclusive Europe that will not exploit and threaten them with false promised of MAD nuclear security. Is this all too complicate for you, the people, to understand? I don't think so. Please come along to the National Forum on Europe at 8pm this Friday, in the City Hall, Limerick, and tell Europe what you want. Final message to Dublin and Europe: For gods sake listen. Edward Horgan To: All those who value democracy Re: National Forum on Forum Dear people of this one world, The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick on Friday January 18th. In view of the importance of this forum and the relative lack of debate on the issue of a possible second Nice Treaty Referendum, it is essential that as many people as possible should attend as give their views as members of the audience. The main panel will consist of all the usual YES to Nice suspects, who will presumably tell us what we should think of Europe. Well to whom it may concern, if anybody out there is listening, the following are the views of Edward Horgan on Europe. The National Forum and Plan B for Europe The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick City Hall, on Friday, January 18th at 8pm. This is only a token road show by virtue of the fact that only six towns outside of Dublin are being visited. Because democracy in Ireland is so limited at local or regional level, this rare opportunity to have our voices heard on national and European matters should be availed of by as many people from the Mid West as possible. This session of the Forum is open to the public, so it is essential that there is a large turnout to voice the opinions of the people, or to support those who do have something to say, on how we believe that Europe should develop. Unfortunately, the Forum is being boycotted the Fine Gael party, and the primary participants are the other political parties in the Dail, with only limited representation allowed to the many other groups who successfully fought, and rejected, the Nice Treaty Referendum in June 2001. In spite of these limitations, the Forum has been very well chaired so far by Senator Maurice Hayes. First, I should declare my interest, I campaigned against the Nice Treaty in 2001, and will be campaigning against it again whenever it is forced upon us in another referendum. Many have argued, that it is undemocratic on the Government's behalf to force through a second Referendum in so short a time after the Irish people have made their decision. The argument that less than 40% of the people voted in the June 2001 Referendum is a bogus argument. That Referendum was very well publicised, so all the electorate had the opportunity to vote, but over 60% of them availed of their democratic right not to vote. Freedom is an essential prerequisite of democracy, but some commentators have even suggested that voting should be made compulsory. Should we also be compelled to vote against our own choice of candidates? Such practices have been common in non-democratic regimes. Given that a second Nice Treaty Referendum is likely in September 2002, the electorate should be informed of the choices they must make. Those who campaigned for a NO vote last time round were branded, leftist pinko anarchists, before the vote, and the electorate were branded as undereducated fools after the Referendum. We have been assured by esteemed political commentators that, with proper re-education, the electorate must surely get it right next time around. Chairman Mao Tse Tung would be pleased. His Cultural Revolution was based on such concepts. The Irish Commissioner in Brussels, Mr. Byrne, even has the cheek to publicly admit that the European Union had NO PLAN B, in the event of the Irish people rejecting Nice second time around. Well, I have news for the EU Commission, and for Commissioner Byrne; there is a PLAN B, and the Irish democratic electorate, who are one of the most astute electorates in Europe, should present this PLAN B to Europe when they say NO for a second time. First, the vast majority of the Irish people are not anti-European nor against the European Union. But they are against the current direction that they see the European Project taking, that is, the creation of an exclusive, European superpower, with its own Euro Army, and Euro Police to enforce a Fortress Europe. It will become a 'them and us', the 'West against the Rest', the contrived Clash of Civilizations, that is being touted by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. War is being waged in our name against innocent people in Afghanistan and elsewhere. The vast majority of the Irish people rejected those who waged war in Northern Ireland in our name and we reject those who claim to wage war on behalf of so-called Western Civilization. We also reject global terrorism, from all sources, just as we rejected Irish terrorism. Because of our history of immigration, missionary and aid work in the third or majority world, and United Nations peace-keeping, the Irish people have an unusually broad global view of humanity and have a much better understanding of International Relations than many of our European neighbours. We are not the un-travelled, under-educated fools that the unholy alliance that advocated Yes for Nice last time around, claimed that we were. This alliance included the Church, the state, the main political parties, the unions, all business interests, all the so-called social partners. They all got it wrong. Nice Treaty No. 2. Referendum Rejection - PLAN B, should be as follows. First on the positive side, the Irish electorate support the following: 1. Yes to economic integration of Europe, including the Euro, which makes a whole lot of sense. 2. Yes to the broadening of democratic political integration, where the voices of the people of Europe can be heard and acted upon. This is urgently needed, but nowhere near being achieved. We need more democracy and less 'presidential dictats' from European Councils and Commissions, or from Dublin. 3. Yes to inclusive expansion of Europe, for the benefit of humanity and not just for the elite of Western Europe, is a vital ingredient for global peace. 4. Yes to a multi-cultural and multi-religious Europe which is the only safe Europe in the long-term. 5. Yes to a Europe that supports sustainable development in all regions of the world. 6. Yes to a Europe that promotes safe renewable energy that does not destroy the environment. 7. Yes to a Europe that supports a reformed and truly representative United Nations as the only overseer of global collective security, backed up by a just and wise system of international law. 8. Yes to regional security organisations such as the OSCE (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe), and OAU (Organisation of African Unity) which should be strengthened but placed under clear United Nations control. 9. Yes to a positive Irish Neutrality which promotes global peace, justice, and an immediate withdrawal of Irish Defence Forces involvement with the NATO alliance and the European Rapid Reaction Force (ERRF). 10. Yes to the inclusion of a Protocol exempting Ireland from membership of the ERRF. On the negative side, the Irish electorate must tell Europe that the following are not acceptable by saying no to the following: 1. No to the concept of an exclusive superior European Christian super-state. 2. No to deepening of political integration, including the ceding of sovereignty, authority, and democracy, up to central autocratic political structures effectively controlled by the Germany, France and Britain. 3. No to a European police state, that excludes genuine refugees and justified economic migrants, while exploiting cheap (almost slave) labour, from and in, the majority other world outside Europe. Fortress Europe must be dismantled. 4. No to those who say that Ireland should join nuclear military alliances such as NATO and the European Rapid Reaction Force, and no the proliferation of Nuclear weapons, star wars, and gross over-expenditure on weapons systems that destabilise the world and threaten the future of humankind. 5. No to the use of Shannon airport to make war on innocent people in our name. 6. No to the gross over-exploitation of the earth's resources for the benefit of the few elite in the West and at the expense of the many in 'the Rest'. 7. No to nuclear power, and the unsustainable exploitation of carbon fuels including peat power stations. NO, NO, NO, to Sellafield. 8. The Irish electorate must continue to say no to all those who think that they are too stupid to understand politics and to those in 'Ivory Fortresses', who thing that only they know what is best for the rest of us. These are not simple concepts, but they are vital for the future of all Europeans and the future of all humanity. Twice in the last century, Europe was militarised, mobilised and polarised, and then laid to waste in two World Wars. Now, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, we are about to allow the same type of circumstances to develop. By a fluke of our history, the Irish people are the only electorate in all of Europe who are allowed to have a say in the future of Europe. All the other fourteen governments did not trust their people to carry out the wishes of their political elites. We owe it to ourselves and also to the people of the other fourteen EU countries to call a halt to this Euro Superstate, and to develop a Europe of the people, for us, the people. Most of all we owe it to the people outside the present EU, to create an inclusive Europe that will not exploit and threaten them with false promised of MAD nuclear security. Is this all too complicate for you, the people, to understand? I don't think so. Please come along to the National Forum on Europe at 8pm this Friday, in the City Hall, Limerick, and tell Europe what you want. Final message to Dublin and Europe: For gods sake listen. Edward Horgan _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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[Antisellafield] Forum on Europe
by Edward Horgan 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

Apologies if you get this twice. Of course you could always read it twice! Ed. To: All those who value democracy Re: National Forum on Forum Dear people of this one world, The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick on Friday January 18th. In view of the importance of this forum and the relative lack of debate on the issue of a possible second Nice Treaty Referendum, it is essential that as many people as possible should attend as give their views as members of the audience. The main panel will consist of all the usual YES to Nice suspects, who will presumably tell us what we should think of Europe. Well to whom it may concern, if anybody out there is listening, the following are the views of Edward Horgan on Europe. The National Forum and Plan B for Europe The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick City Hall, on Friday, January 18th at 8pm. This is only a token road show by virtue of the fact that only six towns outside of Dublin are being visited. Because democracy in Ireland is so limited at local or regional level, this rare opportunity to have our voices heard on national and European matters should be availed of by as many people from the Mid West as possible. This session of the Forum is open to the public, so it is essential that there is a large turnout to voice the opinions of the people, or to support those who do have something to say, on how we believe that Europe should develop. Unfortunately, the Forum is being boycotted the Fine Gael party, and the primary participants are the other political parties in the Dail, with only limited representation allowed to the many other groups who successfully fought, and rejected, the Nice Treaty Referendum in June 2001. In spite of these limitations, the Forum has been very well chaired so far by Senator Maurice Hayes. First, I should declare my interest, I campaigned against the Nice Treaty in 2001, and will be campaigning against it again whenever it is forced upon us in another referendum. Many have argued, that it is undemocratic on the Governments behalf to force through a second Referendum in so short a time after the Irish people have made their decision. The argument that less than 40% of the people voted in the June 2001 Referendum is a bogus argument. That Referendum was very well publicised, so all the electorate had the opportunity to vote, but over 60% of them availed of their democratic right not to vote. Freedom is an essential prerequisite of democracy, but some commentators have even suggested that voting should be made compulsory. Should we also be compelled to vote against our own choice of candidates? Such practices have been common in non-democratic regimes. Given that a second Nice Treaty Referendum is likely in September 2002, the electorate should be informed of the choices they must make. Those who campaigned for a NO vote last time round were branded, leftist pinko anarchists, before the vote, and the electorate were branded as undereducated fools after the Referendum. We have been assured by esteemed political commentators that, with proper re-education, the electorate must surely get it right next time around. Chairman Mao Tse Tung would be pleased. His Cultural Revolution was based on such concepts. The Irish Commissioner in Brussels, Mr. Byrne, even has the cheek to publicly admit that the European Union had NO PLAN B, in the event of the Irish people rejecting Nice second time around. Well, I have news for the EU Commission, and for Commissioner Byrne; there is a PLAN B, and the Irish democratic electorate, who are one of the most astute electorates in Europe, should present this PLAN B to Europe when they say NO for a second time. First, the vast majority of the Irish people are not anti-European nor against the European Union. But they are against the current direction that they see the European Project taking, that is, the creation of an exclusive, European superpower, with its own Euro Army, and Euro Police to enforce a Fortress Europe. It will become a them and us, the West against the Rest, the contrived Clash of Civilizations, that is being touted by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. War is being waged in our name against innocent people in Afghanistan and elsewhere. The vast majority of the Irish people rejected those who waged war in Northern Ireland in our name and we reject those who claim to wage war on behalf of so-called Western Civilization. We also reject global terrorism, from all sources, just as we rejected Irish terrorism. Because of our history of immigration, missionary and aid work in the third or majority world, and United Nations peace-keeping, the Irish people have an unusually broad global view of humanity and have a much better understanding of International Relations than many of our European neighbours. We are not the un-travelled, under-educated fools that the unholy alliance that advocated Yes for Nice last time around, claimed that we were. This alliance included the Church, the state, the main political parties, the unions, all business interests, all the so-called social partners. They all got it wrong. Nice Treaty No. 2. Referendum Rejection PLAN B, should be as follows. First on the positive side, the Irish electorate support the following: 1. Yes to economic integration of Europe, including the Euro, which makes a whole lot of sense. 2. Yes to the broadening of democratic political integration, where the voices of the people of Europe can be heard and acted upon. This is urgently needed, but nowhere near being achieved. We need more democracy and less presidential dictats from European Councils and Commissions, or from Dublin. 3. Yes to inclusive expansion of Europe, for the benefit of humanity and not just for the elite of Western Europe, is a vital ingredient for global peace. 4. Yes to a multi-cultural and multi-religious Europe which is the only safe Europe in the long-term. 5. Yes to a Europe that supports sustainable development in all regions of the world. 6. Yes to a Europe that promotes safe renewable energy that does not destroy the environment. 7. Yes to a Europe that supports a reformed and truly representative United Nations as the only overseer of global collective security, backed up by a just and wise system of international law. 8. Yes to regional security organisations such as the OSCE (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe), and OAU (Organisation of African Unity) which should be strengthened but placed under clear United Nations control. 9. Yes to a positive Irish Neutrality which promotes global peace, justice, and an immediate withdrawal of Irish Defence Forces involvement with the NATO alliance and the European Rapid Reaction Force (ERRF). 10. Yes to the inclusion of a Protocol exempting Ireland from membership of the ERRF. On the negative side, the Irish electorate must tell Europe that the following are not acceptable by saying no to the following: 1. No to the concept of an exclusive superior European Christian super-state. 2. No to deepening of political integration, including the ceding of sovereignty, authority, and democracy, up to central autocratic political structures effectively controlled by the Germany, France and Britain. 3. No to a European police state, that excludes genuine refugees and justified economic migrants, while exploiting cheap (almost slave) labour, from and in, the majority other world outside Europe. Fortress Europe must be dismantled. 4. No to those who say that Ireland should join nuclear military alliances such as NATO and the European Rapid Reaction Force, and no the proliferation of Nuclear weapons, star wars, and gross over-expenditure on weapons systems that destabilise the world and threaten the future of humankind. 5. No to the use of Shannon airport to make war on innocent people in our name. 6. No to the gross over-exploitation of the earths resources for the benefit of the few elite in the West and at the expense of the many in the Rest. 7. No to nuclear power, and the unsustainable exploitation of carbon fuels including peat power stations. NO, NO, NO, to Sellafield. 8. The Irish electorate must continue to say no to all those who think that they are too stupid to understand politics and to those in Ivory Fortresses, who thing that only they know what is best for the rest of us. These are not simple concepts, but they are vital for the future of all Europeans and the future of all humanity. Twice in the last century, Europe was militarised, mobilised and polarised, and then laid to waste in two World Wars. Now, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, we are about to allow the same type of circumstances to develop. By a fluke of our history, the Irish people are the only electorate in all of Europe who are allowed to have a say in the future of Europe. All the other fourteen governments did not trust their people to carry out the wishes of their political elites. We owe it to ourselves and also to the people of the other fourteen EU countries to call a halt to this Euro Superstate, and to develop a Europe of the people, for us, the people. Most of all we owe it to the people outside the present EU, to create an inclusive Europe that will not exploit and threaten them with false promised of MAD nuclear security. Is this all too complicate for you, the people, to understand? I dont think so. Please come along to the National Forum on Europe at 8pm this Friday, in the City Hall, Limerick, and tell Europe what you want. Final message to Dublin and Europe: For gods sake listen. Edward Horgan To: All those who value democracy Re: National Forum on Forum Dear people of this one world, The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick on Friday January 18th. In view of the importance of this forum and the relative lack of debate on the issue of a possible second Nice Treaty Referendum, it is essential that as many people as possible should attend as give their views as members of the audience. The main panel will consist of all the usual YES to Nice suspects, who will presumably tell us what we should think of Europe. Well to whom it may concern, if anybody out there is listening, the following are the views of Edward Horgan on Europe. The National Forum and Plan B for Europe The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick City Hall, on Friday, January 18th at 8pm. This is only a token road show by virtue of the fact that only six towns outside of Dublin are being visited. Because democracy in Ireland is so limited at local or regional level, this rare opportunity to have our voices heard on national and European matters should be availed of by as many people from the Mid West as possible. This session of the Forum is open to the public, so it is essential that there is a large turnout to voice the opinions of the people, or to support those who do have something to say, on how we believe that Europe should develop. Unfortunately, the Forum is being boycotted the Fine Gael party, and the primary participants are the other political parties in the Dail, with only limited representation allowed to the many other groups who successfully fought, and rejected, the Nice Treaty Referendum in June 2001. In spite of these limitations, the Forum has been very well chaired so far by Senator Maurice Hayes. First, I should declare my interest, I campaigned against the Nice Treaty in 2001, and will be campaigning against it again whenever it is forced upon us in another referendum. Many have argued, that it is undemocratic on the Governments behalf to force through a second Referendum in so short a time after the Irish people have made their decision. The argument that less than 40% of the people voted in the June 2001 Referendum is a bogus argument. That Referendum was very well publicised, so all the electorate had the opportunity to vote, but over 60% of them availed of their democratic right not to vote. Freedom is an essential prerequisite of democracy, but some commentators have even suggested that voting should be made compulsory. Should we also be compelled to vote against our own choice of candidates? Such practices have been common in non-democratic regimes. Given that a second Nice Treaty Referendum is likely in September 2002, the electorate should be informed of the choices they must make. Those who campaigned for a NO vote last time round were branded, leftist pinko anarchists, before the vote, and the electorate were branded as undereducated fools after the Referendum. We have been assured by esteemed political commentators that, with proper re-education, the electorate must surely get it right next time around. Chairman Mao Tse Tung would be pleased. His Cultural Revolution was based on such concepts. The Irish Commissioner in Brussels, Mr. Byrne, even has the cheek to publicly admit that the European Union had NO PLAN B, in the event of the Irish people rejecting Nice second time around. Well, I have news for the EU Commission, and for Commissioner Byrne; there is a PLAN B, and the Irish democratic electorate, who are one of the most astute electorates in Europe, should present this PLAN B to Europe when they say NO for a second time. First, the vast majority of the Irish people are not anti-European nor against the European Union. But they are against the current direction that they see the European Project taking, that is, the creation of an exclusive, European superpower, with its own Euro Army, and Euro Police to enforce a Fortress Europe. It will become a them and us, the West against the Rest, the contrived Clash of Civilizations, that is being touted by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. War is being waged in our name against innocent people in Afghanistan and elsewhere. The vast majority of the Irish people rejected those who waged war in Northern Ireland in our name and we reject those who claim to wage war on behalf of so-called Western Civilization. We also reject global terrorism, from all sources, just as we rejected Irish terrorism. Because of our history of immigration, missionary and aid work in the third or majority world, and United Nations peace-keeping, the Irish people have an unusually broad global view of humanity and have a much better understanding of International Relations than many of our European neighbours. We are not the un-travelled, under-educated fools that the unholy alliance that advocated Yes for Nice last time around, claimed that we were. This alliance included the Church, the state, the main political parties, the unions, all business interests, all the so-called social partners. They all got it wrong. Nice Treaty No. 2. Referendum Rejection PLAN B, should be as follows. First on the positive side, the Irish electorate support the following: 1. Yes to economic integration of Europe, including the Euro, which makes a whole lot of sense. 2. Yes to the broadening of democratic political integration, where the voices of the people of Europe can be heard and acted upon. This is urgently needed, but nowhere near being achieved. We need more democracy and less presidential dictats from European Councils and Commissions, or from Dublin. 3. Yes to inclusive expansion of Europe, for the benefit of humanity and not just for the elite of Western Europe, is a vital ingredient for global peace. 4. Yes to a multi-cultural and multi-religious Europe which is the only safe Europe in the long-term. 5. Yes to a Europe that supports sustainable development in all regions of the world. 6. Yes to a Europe that promotes safe renewable energy that does not destroy the environment. 7. Yes to a Europe that supports a reformed and truly representative United Nations as the only overseer of global collective security, backed up by a just and wise system of international law. 8. Yes to regional security organisations such as the OSCE (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe), and OAU (Organisation of African Unity) which should be strengthened but placed under clear United Nations control. 9. Yes to a positive Irish Neutrality which promotes global peace, justice, and an immediate withdrawal of Irish Defence Forces involvement with the NATO alliance and the European Rapid Reaction Force (ERRF). 10. Yes to the inclusion of a Protocol exempting Ireland from membership of the ERRF. On the negative side, the Irish electorate must tell Europe that the following are not acceptable by saying no to the following: 1. No to the concept of an exclusive superior European Christian super-state. 2. No to deepening of political integration, including the ceding of sovereignty, authority, and democracy, up to central autocratic political structures effectively controlled by the Germany, France and Britain. 3. No to a European police state, that excludes genuine refugees and justified economic migrants, while exploiting cheap (almost slave) labour, from and in, the majority other world outside Europe. Fortress Europe must be dismantled. 4. No to those who say that Ireland should join nuclear military alliances such as NATO and the European Rapid Reaction Force, and no the proliferation of Nuclear weapons, star wars, and gross over-expenditure on weapons systems that destabilise the world and threaten the future of humankind. 5. No to the use of Shannon airport to make war on innocent people in our name. 6. No to the gross over-exploitation of the earths resources for the benefit of the few elite in the West and at the expense of the many in the Rest. 7. No to nuclear power, and the unsustainable exploitation of carbon fuels including peat power stations. NO, NO, NO, to Sellafield. 8. The Irish electorate must continue to say no to all those who think that they are too stupid to understand politics and to those in Ivory Fortresses, who thing that only they know what is best for the rest of us. These are not simple concepts, but they are vital for the future of all Europeans and the future of all humanity. Twice in the last century, Europe was militarised, mobilised and polarised, and then laid to waste in two World Wars. Now, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, we are about to allow the same type of circumstances to develop. By a fluke of our history, the Irish people are the only electorate in all of Europe who are allowed to have a say in the future of Europe. All the other fourteen governments did not trust their people to carry out the wishes of their political elites. We owe it to ourselves and also to the people of the other fourteen EU countries to call a halt to this Euro Superstate, and to develop a Europe of the people, for us, the people. Most of all we owe it to the people outside the present EU, to create an inclusive Europe that will not exploit and threaten them with false promised of MAD nuclear security. Is this all too complicate for you, the people, to understand? I dont think so. Please come along to the National Forum on Europe at 8pm this Friday, in the City Hall, Limerick, and tell Europe what you want. Final message to Dublin and Europe: For gods sake listen. Edward Horgan To: All those who value democracy Re: National Forum on Forum Dear people of this one world, The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick on Friday January 18th. In view of the importance of this forum and the relative lack of debate on the issue of a possible second Nice Treaty Referendum, it is essential that as many people as possible should attend as give their views as members of the audience. The main panel will consist of all the usual YES to Nice suspects, who will presumably tell us what we should think of Europe. Well to whom it may concern, if anybody out there is listening, the following are the views of Edward Horgan on Europe. The National Forum and Plan B for Europe The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick City Hall, on Friday, January 18th at 8pm. This is only a token road show by virtue of the fact that only six towns outside of Dublin are being visited. Because democracy in Ireland is so limited at local or regional level, this rare opportunity to have our voices heard on national and European matters should be availed of by as many people from the Mid West as possible. This session of the Forum is open to the public, so it is essential that there is a large turnout to voice the opinions of the people, or to support those who do have something to say, on how we believe that Europe should develop. Unfortunately, the Forum is being boycotted the Fine Gael party, and the primary participants are the other political parties in the Dail, with only limited representation allowed to the many other groups who successfully fought, and rejected, the Nice Treaty Referendum in June 2001. In spite of these limitations, the Forum has been very well chaired so far by Senator Maurice Hayes. First, I should declare my interest, I campaigned against the Nice Treaty in 2001, and will be campaigning against it again whenever it is forced upon us in another referendum. Many have argued, that it is undemocratic on the Governments behalf to force through a second Referendum in so short a time after the Irish people have made their decision. The argument that less than 40% of the people voted in the June 2001 Referendum is a bogus argument. That Referendum was very well publicised, so all the electorate had the opportunity to vote, but over 60% of them availed of their democratic right not to vote. Freedom is an essential prerequisite of democracy, but some commentators have even suggested that voting should be made compulsory. Should we also be compelled to vote against our own choice of candidates? Such practices have been common in non-democratic regimes. Given that a second Nice Treaty Referendum is likely in September 2002, the electorate should be informed of the choices they must make. Those who campaigned for a NO vote last time round were branded, leftist pinko anarchists, before the vote, and the electorate were branded as undereducated fools after the Referendum. We have been assured by esteemed political commentators that, with proper re-education, the electorate must surely get it right next time around. Chairman Mao Tse Tung would be pleased. His Cultural Revolution was based on such concepts. The Irish Commissioner in Brussels, Mr. Byrne, even has the cheek to publicly admit that the European Union had NO PLAN B, in the event of the Irish people rejecting Nice second time around. Well, I have news for the EU Commission, and for Commissioner Byrne; there is a PLAN B, and the Irish democratic electorate, who are one of the most astute electorates in Europe, should present this PLAN B to Europe when they say NO for a second time. First, the vast majority of the Irish people are not anti-European nor against the European Union. But they are against the current direction that they see the European Project taking, that is, the creation of an exclusive, European superpower, with its own Euro Army, and Euro Police to enforce a Fortress Europe. It will become a them and us, the West against the Rest, the contrived Clash of Civilizations, that is being touted by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. War is being waged in our name against innocent people in Afghanistan and elsewhere. The vast majority of the Irish people rejected those who waged war in Northern Ireland in our name and we reject those who claim to wage war on behalf of so-called Western Civilization. We also reject global terrorism, from all sources, just as we rejected Irish terrorism. Because of our history of immigration, missionary and aid work in the third or majority world, and United Nations peace-keeping, the Irish people have an unusually broad global view of humanity and have a much better understanding of International Relations than many of our European neighbours. We are not the un-travelled, under-educated fools that the unholy alliance that advocated Yes for Nice last time around, claimed that we were. This alliance included the Church, the state, the main political parties, the unions, all business interests, all the so-called social partners. They all got it wrong. Nice Treaty No. 2. Referendum Rejection PLAN B, should be as follows. First on the positive side, the Irish electorate support the following: 1. Yes to economic integration of Europe, including the Euro, which makes a whole lot of sense. 2. Yes to the broadening of democratic political integration, where the voices of the people of Europe can be heard and acted upon. This is urgently needed, but nowhere near being achieved. We need more democracy and less presidential dictats from European Councils and Commissions, or from Dublin. 3. Yes to inclusive expansion of Europe, for the benefit of humanity and not just for the elite of Western Europe, is a vital ingredient for global peace. 4. Yes to a multi-cultural and multi-religious Europe which is the only safe Europe in the long-term. 5. Yes to a Europe that supports sustainable development in all regions of the world. 6. Yes to a Europe that promotes safe renewable energy that does not destroy the environment. 7. Yes to a Europe that supports a reformed and truly representative United Nations as the only overseer of global collective security, backed up by a just and wise system of international law. 8. Yes to regional security organisations such as the OSCE (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe), and OAU (Organisation of African Unity) which should be strengthened but placed under clear United Nations control. 9. Yes to a positive Irish Neutrality which promotes global peace, justice, and an immediate withdrawal of Irish Defence Forces involvement with the NATO alliance and the European Rapid Reaction Force (ERRF). 10. Yes to the inclusion of a Protocol exempting Ireland from membership of the ERRF. On the negative side, the Irish electorate must tell Europe that the following are not acceptable by saying no to the following: 1. No to the concept of an exclusive superior European Christian super-state. 2. No to deepening of political integration, including the ceding of sovereignty, authority, and democracy, up to central autocratic political structures effectively controlled by the Germany, France and Britain. 3. No to a European police state, that excludes genuine refugees and justified economic migrants, while exploiting cheap (almost slave) labour, from and in, the majority other world outside Europe. Fortress Europe must be dismantled. 4. No to those who say that Ireland should join nuclear military alliances such as NATO and the European Rapid Reaction Force, and no the proliferation of Nuclear weapons, star wars, and gross over-expenditure on weapons systems that destabilise the world and threaten the future of humankind. 5. No to the use of Shannon airport to make war on innocent people in our name. 6. No to the gross over-exploitation of the earths resources for the benefit of the few elite in the West and at the expense of the many in the Rest. 7. No to nuclear power, and the unsustainable exploitation of carbon fuels including peat power stations. NO, NO, NO, to Sellafield. 8. The Irish electorate must continue to say no to all those who think that they are too stupid to understand politics and to those in Ivory Fortresses, who thing that only they know what is best for the rest of us. These are not simple concepts, but they are vital for the future of all Europeans and the future of all humanity. Twice in the last century, Europe was militarised, mobilised and polarised, and then laid to waste in two World Wars. Now, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, we are about to allow the same type of circumstances to develop. By a fluke of our history, the Irish people are the only electorate in all of Europe who are allowed to have a say in the future of Europe. All the other fourteen governments did not trust their people to carry out the wishes of their political elites. We owe it to ourselves and also to the people of the other fourteen EU countries to call a halt to this Euro Superstate, and to develop a Europe of the people, for us, the people. Most of all we owe it to the people outside the present EU, to create an inclusive Europe that will not exploit and threaten them with false promised of MAD nuclear security. Is this all too complicate for you, the people, to understand? I dont think so. Please come along to the National Forum on Europe at 8pm this Friday, in the City Hall, Limerick, and tell Europe what you want. Final message to Dublin and Europe: For gods sake listen. Edward Horgan To: All those who value democracy Re: National Forum on Forum Dear people of this one world, The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick on Friday January 18th. In view of the importance of this forum and the relative lack of debate on the issue of a possible second Nice Treaty Referendum, it is essential that as many people as possible should attend as give their views as members of the audience. The main panel will consist of all the usual YES to Nice suspects, who will presumably tell us what we should think of Europe. Well to whom it may concern, if anybody out there is listening, the following are the views of Edward Horgan on Europe. The National Forum and Plan B for Europe The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick City Hall, on Friday, January 18th at 8pm. This is only a token road show by virtue of the fact that only six towns outside of Dublin are being visited. Because democracy in Ireland is so limited at local or regional level, this rare opportunity to have our voices heard on national and European matters should be availed of by as many people from the Mid West as possible. This session of the Forum is open to the public, so it is essential that there is a large turnout to voice the opinions of the people, or to support those who do have something to say, on how we believe that Europe should develop. Unfortunately, the Forum is being boycotted the Fine Gael party, and the primary participants are the other political parties in the Dail, with only limited representation allowed to the many other groups who successfully fought, and rejected, the Nice Treaty Referendum in June 2001. In spite of these limitations, the Forum has been very well chaired so far by Senator Maurice Hayes. First, I should declare my interest, I campaigned against the Nice Treaty in 2001, and will be campaigning against it again whenever it is forced upon us in another referendum. Many have argued, that it is undemocratic on the Governments behalf to force through a second Referendum in so short a time after the Irish people have made their decision. The argument that less than 40% of the people voted in the June 2001 Referendum is a bogus argument. That Referendum was very well publicised, so all the electorate had the opportunity to vote, but over 60% of them availed of their democratic right not to vote. Freedom is an essential prerequisite of democracy, but some commentators have even suggested that voting should be made compulsory. Should we also be compelled to vote against our own choice of candidates? Such practices have been common in non-democratic regimes. Given that a second Nice Treaty Referendum is likely in September 2002, the electorate should be informed of the choices they must make. Those who campaigned for a NO vote last time round were branded, leftist pinko anarchists, before the vote, and the electorate were branded as undereducated fools after the Referendum. We have been assured by esteemed political commentators that, with proper re-education, the electorate must surely get it right next time around. Chairman Mao Tse Tung would be pleased. His Cultural Revolution was based on such concepts. The Irish Commissioner in Brussels, Mr. Byrne, even has the cheek to publicly admit that the European Union had NO PLAN B, in the event of the Irish people rejecting Nice second time around. Well, I have news for the EU Commission, and for Commissioner Byrne; there is a PLAN B, and the Irish democratic electorate, who are one of the most astute electorates in Europe, should present this PLAN B to Europe when they say NO for a second time. First, the vast majority of the Irish people are not anti-European nor against the European Union. But they are against the current direction that they see the European Project taking, that is, the creation of an exclusive, European superpower, with its own Euro Army, and Euro Police to enforce a Fortress Europe. It will become a them and us, the West against the Rest, the contrived Clash of Civilizations, that is being touted by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. War is being waged in our name against innocent people in Afghanistan and elsewhere. The vast majority of the Irish people rejected those who waged war in Northern Ireland in our name and we reject those who claim to wage war on behalf of so-called Western Civilization. We also reject global terrorism, from all sources, just as we rejected Irish terrorism. Because of our history of immigration, missionary and aid work in the third or majority world, and United Nations peace-keeping, the Irish people have an unusually broad global view of humanity and have a much better understanding of International Relations than many of our European neighbours. We are not the un-travelled, under-educated fools that the unholy alliance that advocated Yes for Nice last time around, claimed that we were. This alliance included the Church, the state, the main political parties, the unions, all business interests, all the so-called social partners. They all got it wrong. Nice Treaty No. 2. Referendum Rejection PLAN B, should be as follows. First on the positive side, the Irish electorate support the following: 1. Yes to economic integration of Europe, including the Euro, which makes a whole lot of sense. 2. Yes to the broadening of democratic political integration, where the voices of the people of Europe can be heard and acted upon. This is urgently needed, but nowhere near being achieved. We need more democracy and less presidential dictats from European Councils and Commissions, or from Dublin. 3. Yes to inclusive expansion of Europe, for the benefit of humanity and not just for the elite of Western Europe, is a vital ingredient for global peace. 4. Yes to a multi-cultural and multi-religious Europe which is the only safe Europe in the long-term. 5. Yes to a Europe that supports sustainable development in all regions of the world. 6. Yes to a Europe that promotes safe renewable energy that does not destroy the environment. 7. Yes to a Europe that supports a reformed and truly representative United Nations as the only overseer of global collective security, backed up by a just and wise system of international law. 8. Yes to regional security organisations such as the OSCE (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe), and OAU (Organisation of African Unity) which should be strengthened but placed under clear United Nations control. 9. Yes to a positive Irish Neutrality which promotes global peace, justice, and an immediate withdrawal of Irish Defence Forces involvement with the NATO alliance and the European Rapid Reaction Force (ERRF). 10. Yes to the inclusion of a Protocol exempting Ireland from membership of the ERRF. On the negative side, the Irish electorate must tell Europe that the following are not acceptable by saying no to the following: 1. No to the concept of an exclusive superior European Christian super-state. 2. No to deepening of political integration, including the ceding of sovereignty, authority, and democracy, up to central autocratic political structures effectively controlled by the Germany, France and Britain. 3. No to a European police state, that excludes genuine refugees and justified economic migrants, while exploiting cheap (almost slave) labour, from and in, the majority other world outside Europe. Fortress Europe must be dismantled. 4. No to those who say that Ireland should join nuclear military alliances such as NATO and the European Rapid Reaction Force, and no the proliferation of Nuclear weapons, star wars, and gross over-expenditure on weapons systems that destabilise the world and threaten the future of humankind. 5. No to the use of Shannon airport to make war on innocent people in our name. 6. No to the gross over-exploitation of the earths resources for the benefit of the few elite in the West and at the expense of the many in the Rest. 7. No to nuclear power, and the unsustainable exploitation of carbon fuels including peat power stations. NO, NO, NO, to Sellafield. 8. The Irish electorate must continue to say no to all those who think that they are too stupid to understand politics and to those in Ivory Fortresses, who thing that only they know what is best for the rest of us. These are not simple concepts, but they are vital for the future of all Europeans and the future of all humanity. Twice in the last century, Europe was militarised, mobilised and polarised, and then laid to waste in two World Wars. Now, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, we are about to allow the same type of circumstances to develop. By a fluke of our history, the Irish people are the only electorate in all of Europe who are allowed to have a say in the future of Europe. All the other fourteen governments did not trust their people to carry out the wishes of their political elites. We owe it to ourselves and also to the people of the other fourteen EU countries to call a halt to this Euro Superstate, and to develop a Europe of the people, for us, the people. Most of all we owe it to the people outside the present EU, to create an inclusive Europe that will not exploit and threaten them with false promised of MAD nuclear security. Is this all too complicate for you, the people, to understand? I dont think so. Please come along to the National Forum on Europe at 8pm this Friday, in the City Hall, Limerick, and tell Europe what you want. Final message to Dublin and Europe: For gods sake listen. Edward Horgan To: All those who value democracy Re: National Forum on Forum Dear people of this one world, The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick on Friday January 18th. In view of the importance of this forum and the relative lack of debate on the issue of a possible second Nice Treaty Referendum, it is essential that as many people as possible should attend as give their views as members of the audience. The main panel will consist of all the usual YES to Nice suspects, who will presumably tell us what we should think of Europe. Well to whom it may concern, if anybody out there is listening, the following are the views of Edward Horgan on Europe. The National Forum and Plan B for Europe The National Forum on Europe is coming to Limerick City Hall, on Friday, January 18th at 8pm. This is only a token road show by virtue of the fact that only six towns outside of Dublin are being visited. Because democracy in Ireland is so limited at local or regional level, this rare opportunity to have our voices heard on national and European matters should be availed of by as many people from the Mid West as possible. This session of the Forum is open to the public, so it is essential that there is a large turnout to voice the opinions of the people, or to support those who do have something to say, on how we believe that Europe should develop. Unfortunately, the Forum is being boycotted the Fine Gael party, and the primary participants are the other political parties in the Dail, with only limited representation allowed to the many other groups who successfully fought, and rejected, the Nice Treaty Referendum in June 2001. In spite of these limitations, the Forum has been very well chaired so far by Senator Maurice Hayes. First, I should declare my interest, I campaigned against the Nice Treaty in 2001, and will be campaigning against it again whenever it is forced upon us in another referendum. Many have argued, that it is undemocratic on the Governments behalf to force through a second Referendum in so short a time after the Irish people have made their decision. The argument that less than 40% of the people voted in the June 2001 Referendum is a bogus argument. That Referendum was very well publicised, so all the electorate had the opportunity to vote, but over 60% of them availed of their democratic right not to vote. Freedom is an essential prerequisite of democracy, but some commentators have even suggested that voting should be made compulsory. Should we also be compelled to vote against our own choice of candidates? Such practices have been common in non-democratic regimes. Given that a second Nice Treaty Referendum is likely in September 2002, the electorate should be informed of the choices they must make. Those who campaigned for a NO vote last time round were branded, leftist pinko anarchists, before the vote, and the electorate were branded as undereducated fools after the Referendum. We have been assured by esteemed political commentators that, with proper re-education, the electorate must surely get it right next time around. Chairman Mao Tse Tung would be pleased. His Cultural Revolution was based on such concepts. The Irish Commissioner in Brussels, Mr. Byrne, even has the cheek to publicly admit that the European Union had NO PLAN B, in the event of the Irish people rejecting Nice second time around. Well, I have news for the EU Commission, and for Commissioner Byrne; there is a PLAN B, and the Irish democratic electorate, who are one of the most astute electorates in Europe, should present this PLAN B to Europe when they say NO for a second time. First, the vast majority of the Irish people are not anti-European nor against the European Union. But they are against the current direction that they see the European Project taking, that is, the creation of an exclusive, European superpower, with its own Euro Army, and Euro Police to enforce a Fortress Europe. It will become a them and us, the West against the Rest, the contrived Clash of Civilizations, that is being touted by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair. War is being waged in our name against innocent people in Afghanistan and elsewhere. The vast majority of the Irish people rejected those who waged war in Northern Ireland in our name and we reject those who claim to wage war on behalf of so-called Western Civilization. We also reject global terrorism, from all sources, just as we rejected Irish terrorism. Because of our history of immigration, missionary and aid work in the third or majority world, and United Nations peace-keeping, the Irish people have an unusually broad global view of humanity and have a much better understanding of International Relations than many of our European neighbours. We are not the un-travelled, under-educated fools that the unholy alliance that advocated Yes for Nice last time around, claimed that we were. This alliance included the Church, the state, the main political parties, the unions, all business interests, all the so-called social partners. They all got it wrong. Nice Treaty No. 2. Referendum Rejection PLAN B, should be as follows. First on the positive side, the Irish electorate support the following: 1. Yes to economic integration of Europe, including the Euro, which makes a whole lot of sense. 2. Yes to the broadening of democratic political integration, where the voices of the people of Europe can be heard and acted upon. This is urgently needed, but nowhere near being achieved. We need more democracy and less presidential dictats from European Councils and Commissions, or from Dublin. 3. Yes to inclusive expansion of Europe, for the benefit of humanity and not just for the elite of Western Europe, is a vital ingredient for global peace. 4. Yes to a multi-cultural and multi-religious Europe which is the only safe Europe in the long-term. 5. Yes to a Europe that supports sustainable development in all regions of the world. 6. Yes to a Europe that promotes safe renewable energy that does not destroy the environment. 7. Yes to a Europe that supports a reformed and truly representative United Nations as the only overseer of global collective security, backed up by a just and wise system of international law. 8. Yes to regional security organisations such as the OSCE (Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe), and OAU (Organisation of African Unity) which should be strengthened but placed under clear United Nations control. 9. Yes to a positive Irish Neutrality which promotes global peace, justice, and an immediate withdrawal of Irish Defence Forces involvement with the NATO alliance and the European Rapid Reaction Force (ERRF). 10. Yes to the inclusion of a Protocol exempting Ireland from membership of the ERRF. On the negative side, the Irish electorate must tell Europe that the following are not acceptable by saying no to the following: 1. No to the concept of an exclusive superior European Christian super-state. 2. No to deepening of political integration, including the ceding of sovereignty, authority, and democracy, up to central autocratic political structures effectively controlled by the Germany, France and Britain. 3. No to a European police state, that excludes genuine refugees and justified economic migrants, while exploiting cheap (almost slave) labour, from and in, the majority other world outside Europe. Fortress Europe must be dismantled. 4. No to those who say that Ireland should join nuclear military alliances such as NATO and the European Rapid Reaction Force, and no the proliferation of Nuclear weapons, star wars, and gross over-expenditure on weapons systems that destabilise the world and threaten the future of humankind. 5. No to the use of Shannon airport to make war on innocent people in our name. 6. No to the gross over-exploitation of the earths resources for the benefit of the few elite in the West and at the expense of the many in the Rest. 7. No to nuclear power, and the unsustainable exploitation of carbon fuels including peat power stations. NO, NO, NO, to Sellafield. 8. The Irish electorate must continue to say no to all those who think that they are too stupid to understand politics and to those in Ivory Fortresses, who thing that only they know what is best for the rest of us. These are not simple concepts, but they are vital for the future of all Europeans and the future of all humanity. Twice in the last century, Europe was militarised, mobilised and polarised, and then laid to waste in two World Wars. Now, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, we are about to allow the same type of circumstances to develop. By a fluke of our history, the Irish people are the only electorate in all of Europe who are allowed to have a say in the future of Europe. All the other fourteen governments did not trust their people to carry out the wishes of their political elites. We owe it to ourselves and also to the people of the other fourteen EU countries to call a halt to this Euro Superstate, and to develop a Europe of the people, for us, the people. Most of all we owe it to the people outside the present EU, to create an inclusive Europe that will not exploit and threaten them with false promised of MAD nuclear security. Is this all too complicate for you, the people, to understand? I dont think so. Please come along to the National Forum on Europe at 8pm this Friday, in the City Hall, Limerick, and tell Europe what you want. Final message to Dublin and Europe: For gods sake listen. Edward Horgan _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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