July 2001 - minds-disaster@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie

[Minds-disaster] News
by David Barrett 24 Jul '01

24 Jul '01

Phil, while on the way to a David Gray concert, caught up with John Keating and talked about the network restrictions with him. As it turns out, the arrangement with FTP was on the condition it was tunneled through SSH. Phil discussed the possibility of allowing shell access through SSH [which is what we SHOULD all have been using, BTW :)] and, according to him, John seemed to be of the opinion that they wouldn't mind certain subnets of the CS Department gaining access to the new machine by this method. He's going to try and sort this out. And, as it's mainly CS students that will be on Minds throughout the college day, we've pretty much gotten everything we need. To those Physics and Engineering students, an SSH server is probably going to be installed on student.cs.may.ie, and student is open to all AFAIK (certainly to Engineering students). And we get minds.may.ie. I'm going to ring John soon (and if he's not there, email him) to convey our gratitude for the assistance he has given the society. I think we all appreciate it. As this meeting with CC is no longer going to be a technical one - more one of diplomacy - the party of attendees will have to be altered. I obviously still need to attend, and I'd also like Cian to remain - his method of argument is well suited for this. Phil, however, is more suited for technical discussion; and I would prefer that Kevin go in his place. On the matter of sponsorship, who shall we approach? David Chairperson, Minds mindschair(a)eircom.net

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[Minds-disaster] Fw: BIG NEWS
by David Barrett 20 Jul '01

20 Jul '01

Okay, Bart has a terrible memory. I'm quite surprised he got my name almost right. Alright Bart, is that one SysAdmin total or one SysAdmin from Minds? I'm hoping it's the latter, as we kind of need one from Minds. Telnet/SSH access from inside the college I'm sure can be arranged, with some external organisation - ie, head outside the college and go back in. That said, it's piss, and really annoying. Surely internal access can be in only? How can being able to SSH into something affect any other computer if you can't SSH out? Argh, the nonsense. On the reputation side, I reckon that will increase substantially come this meeting. I'm still waiting on news of the date (apparently I will be contacted soon from the User Support Co-ordinator... I'm going to send him a mail now). To the hardware firewall... I *think* we have three-hundred to four-hundred and eighty quid left... you'd need to ask Des (which I'll be doing tonight). We could also try to arrange some money from elsewhere... including a loan from pay-day man if necessary. Also, the way you phrase things is hilarious Bart. Where you near Vish's "special" substances lately? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bart Busschots To: Dave Barret Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 4:27 PM Subject: BIG NEWS Hi Dave, Big news from the CC. I couldn't remember the address of the group so could you forward this mail to the group please!!! JK has negotiated a setelment with the CC, now as with all negotiation there is some give and take. The bottom line is that this is the BEST DEAL POSSIBLE so we should be happy with it and not go and stir up any crap over there because it will only harm us. JK says our reputation over there is CRAP so we need to be good for the next while or we can kiss goodbye to our society forever. OK so what's the deal, well the good news is that we will have the following advantages: 1) One Sysadmin may have root on the E450 2) Our webpages will be visible to THE WORLD 3) We will have telent/ssh access from OUTSIDE the COLLEGE 4) We will have FTP access from outside the college The down sides are these: 1) WE WILL NOT HAVE telnet/ssc access from inside the college. 2) MiNDS> will NOT have physical access to the machine only myself and JK will so if MiNDS> needs to do something to the hard ware I will have to do it. The reasoning behind all this is as follows, the machine will effectively be a sacrificial lamb, it will be COMPLETELY SEPARATED from the college network be a HARDWARE firewall, so if it is hacked it will be physically impossible to get into ANY OTHER college machine from it. Now that takes us to the one remaining problem that has to be sorted out before MiNDS> can come back up, that is we need to get a hardware firewall for the E450. The Question is should MiNDS> pay for it or should JK pay for it? It will probably be about £1000 and JK ain't got the money for it. He will try to get some but I think MiNDS> should try get some money for OR get it sponsored. Any how that's the lot, Bart. _________________________ Bart Busschots, Computer Science Department, NUI Maynooth. E-mail: bart(a)cs.may.ie Web: www.cs.may.ie/~bart

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Fw: [Minds-disaster] RE: [Minds-disaster] Fw: BIG NEWS
by Philip Brennan 20 Jul '01

20 Jul '01

Look, I appreciate as much as anyone else what JK did, I know he got more than we could have, so STOP throwing that at me. No, I don't think I know more than JK, or a fraction of what he knows. But he didn't make this rule, its not his fault, so quit on about JK. You don't think the CC have an attitude problem? They have just dropped another roadblock on us, for no apparent reason (well until they tell us exactly why). They are obviously not bothered about us, they gave in to JK, but not out of any regard for us. This might seem very pessimistic, but its just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. As for getting around it, well if they don't want our members logging in at all, they should just tell us to fuck off completely. They know damn well we will get around it. I was thinking of redbrick also, maybe they could setup a proxy box for us, which would only accept logins from our ip range, and would only allow ssh to minds. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Busschots" <bart.busschots(a)e-merge.ie> To: "Philip Brennan" <newfoundwealth(a)hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [Minds-disaster] RE: [Minds-disaster] Fw: BIG NEWS >You seem to be taking this a little too well cian. As it stands, minds >members will not be able to log in to the new machine from college, and the >status of the old machine hasn't changed either. Which leaves us with no >server. Sure, we can bounce off an outside machine, but what outside machine >administrator will let us do this? Look we can get arround these problems. Maybe we could make some sort of deal with redbrick??? JK might even be able to sort something out for us ... compared to before that's a MINOR problem. >You say it is a 'strange' rule. More like ridiculous. Theres no good >security reasoning behind it, its the old "your machine with its newer, more >advanced software, and its administrators who patch it regularly, is more >vulnerable than our crappy win95 machines" attitude all over again. Theres >no sense in it. It shows no regard at all for the idea of a computer >society, we might as well be the potted plant society. OK ... you mean to tell me YOU a little undergrad knows more than JK ... fine but your talking through your ass. I'm sick of all this crap. Why can't some of you see this for what it is A GREAT DEAL THAT WE SHOULD BE THANKFULL of ... to me it looks like this society has a SERIOUS attitude problem .. not the CC. WE GOT A GREAT DEAL AND SHOULD BE HAPPY ... go talk to JK if you don't believe me but just make sure you are nice to him because he has been very good to us and if he could see this crap he'd be well within his rights to pull the plug on the whole thing and tell MiNDS> to get stuffed. >As for a hardware firewall, I reckon a separate unix box running ipfw or >ip >chains is >= the best off the shelf solution. Talk to JK on this one ... I don't know the technical specs. >Our first priority has to be to try and get some access from the college, >or >at least ask them to tell us why they have done this. Then if they haven't >moved, we will have to find some machine to bounce off. Again talk to JK but really you should trust JK .. hr knows what he's at! >Bart: whose fault is it that we went up without their permission? I blame >college politics, but thats a bit too vague.... Try JC ... put it up without telling them or making it clear to us that we were going against the CC with it. BART __________________________ Bart Busschots bart.busschots(a)physics.org http://www.voyager.8m.net

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Re: [Minds-disaster] Fw: BIG NEWS
by The Geek Goddess of Love 20 Jul '01

20 Jul '01

On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:55:35PM +0100, Bart Busschots wrote: > > >If they want to specifically exclude our members from logging in from college, > >won't they get a little upset if we start telling our members how to get > > > >around that ? > No, from what I gather from JK that's what they EXPECT us to do and it's > fine. > That doesn't make any sense as far as I can see they want one of two things a) MiNDS' machine is directly connected to the outside world and not directly connected to any NUIM machine b) a + the NUIM routers have specific instructions not to allow connections from NUIM machines to MiNDS machines if it's a then there's no reason why someone using an NUIM machine which is capable of connecting to a machine outside the NUIM network shouldn't be able to connect to MiNDS if it's b, and you are correct then they want to put James, and us to a whole lot of trouble for *absolutely no reason* meaigs -- "Little Bunny FooFoo I don't want to see you scoopin' up the field mice and boppin' em on the head." -- the Blue Fairy

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Re: [Minds-disaster] Fw: BIG NEWS
by David Barrett 20 Jul '01

20 Jul '01

>>>>Telnet/SSH access from inside the college I'm sure can be arranged, with >>>>some external organisation - ie, head outside the college and go back in. >>>Exactly, that's what me & JK have to do to get into it. >>Is there already an arrangement with a third party? >There is for me & JK but I doubt you can use that. I though as much. Now, to talk to some people about arranging that for Minds members. Does anyone have any idea of who to ask? We'd need a shell (probably restricted, particularly to remove "kill" from it) or ssh proxy (if possible). >>But tell me, what point is there in having that setup, for new Minds >>members? What will we have to say to them? "ssh to here, then ssh back". >>It's hardly going to do our membership figures very much. >I doubt people will not join us becase they have to type telent twice ... >new mwmbers will never know it any other way so it really won't bother them >and most of us are used to bouncing off CSA7 any how! I'd say it would bother them. "What point is there," they'll say, "for me to waste fourty seconds of my life doing all this nonsense? I'd rather do almost anything else". >Well, all things being equal ... the bottom line is that they're pissed >weather rightly or wrongly is irrelevant. I know you have a bit of a bad >attitude towards the CC and probably rightly so but please just leave it >at the door when you go in to them!!! I have a big switch that says "Diplomacy Mode Trigger" on it. My "bad attitude" is just me getting annoyed at us not getting what we want, or seeing what are apparently silly regulations imposed on us with no explanation of what their reasoning was - ie, I think the regulations are silly, but there *might* be a good reason behind them, which I can't see. >OK paying yourself is fine as long as the society has the money in the bank. >Spending money you havn't got is a whole new ball game. And is simply NOT >ALLOWED. Go talk to Brian before you spend any money you havn't got. Curses. Never mind. There might be some "sponsorship" then, but I'll go talk to him. David Barrett

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Re: [bart.busschots@e-merge.ie: Re: [Minds-disaster] News just in: Dave wants to call it "esquilax" shocker]
by David Barrett 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

BTW Bart, it's easier if you hit "reply all" instead of "reply", that way it will go to the list aswell. >>I say Challenger, but then again, I'm a mean bastard. >>Atlantis? >Challenger!!! That's loke calling a ship Titanic, not to mention the fact that NASA may see >that as a bit below the belt!!! I know I would. Yeah, but it's all good for a laugh. > Atlantis is cool but I really don't see how that even remotely ties in with the MiNDS> theme, > at least Endevour slightly does! I think it ties in well with imagination and self-deception, don't you? And I hope you're not saying Atlantis isn't a shuttle. >>Besides, we can still argue over DNS entries (oh, the fun!) >There is indeed fun to be had!!! Too... many... exclamation marks...

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Re: [bart.busschots@e-merge.ie: Re: [Minds-disaster] News just in: Dave wants to call it "esquilax" shocker]
by Aidan Delaney 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

I put "Minds nuim" into the hobbit name generator @ http://www.chriswetherell.com/hobbit/default.asp & it kindly suggested Gorbulas Chubb-Baggins of Pincup :) http://www.may.ie

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Fw: [bart.busschots@e-merge.ie: Re: [Minds-disaster] News just in: Dave wants to call it "esquilax" shocker]
by David Barrett 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Barrett" <mindschair(a)eircom.net> To: <bart.busschots(a)physics.org> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [bart.busschots(a)e-merge.ie: Re: [Minds-disaster] News just in: Dave wants to call it "esquilax" shocker] > >>Well, the naming scheme is pretty much dead now, considering that the > >>machine will be shared, with ONE OS, with the TIE project - and the name > >>would need to be agreed upon there. > >In that case I propose Endevour, it kinda fits in with the MiNDS> theme > >(as much as Dignity anyhow) and will keep NASA happy, plus it's my > favourite > >space shuttle!!! > > > >What do you all think??? > I say Challenger, but then again, I'm a mean bastard. > Atlantis? > > Besides, we can still argue over DNS entries (oh, the fun!) > > David >

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Fw: [bart.busschots@e-merge.ie: Re: [Minds-disaster] News just in: Dave wants to call it "esquilax" shocker]
by David Barrett 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Busschots" <bart.busschots(a)e-merge.ie> To: "David Barrett" <mindschair(a)eircom.net> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [bart.busschots(a)e-merge.ie: Re: [Minds-disaster] News just in: Dave wants to call it "esquilax" shocker] >Well, the naming scheme is pretty much dead now, considering that the >machine will be shared, with ONE OS, with the TIE project - and the name >would need to be agreed upon there. In that case I propose Endevour, it kinda fits in with the MiNDS> theme (as much as Dignity anyhow) and will keep NASA happy, plus it's my favourite space shuttle!!! What do you all think??? Bart. __________________________ Bart Busschots bart.busschots(a)physics.org http://www.voyager.8m.net

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[bart.busschots@e-merge.ie: Re: [Minds-disaster] News just in: Dave wants to call it "esquilax" shocker]
by The Geek Goddess of Love 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

----- Forwarded message from Bart Busschots <bart.busschots(a)e-merge.ie> ----- >Well, ok, maybe psyche isn't such a good one, but there are plenty of others: >thought, fear, memory, will, desire, sanity, belief, pride, virtue, vice, >courage, dissent, ... OK, I like desire, but could we have a server called Dignity!!! ----- End forwarded message ----- Yeah, dignity is cool meaigs -- "i hear theres more whores per metre squared in beijing than any other country in the world. sucky sucky mr IOC president?" -- Ken

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