- minds-disaster@lists.redbrick.dcu.ie

Re: [Minds-disaster] News
by David Barrett 08 Aug '01

08 Aug '01

From: <honeybear(a)cuddle.co.uk> To: "david barrett" < mindschair(a)eircom.net >; <honeybear(a)cuddle.co.uk> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [Minds-disaster] News > > >What is the meeting for then? Because if it's not a ?Hi, we're Minds, and > >> >we're great? meeting then there is no point in having a meeting at all. > >> Okay, you have said before that it was going to be informal > >> therefore, all we need to do is sit down and have a chat with them. > >No. We need to make them think we're great, or at least make some headway > >towards that goal. > Thats better done with a chat than an all out war which is what you are making it sould like > Dave Nope. I never said our conversation with the CC was like an all out war. > >> you honestly get caught up in a load of BS dave and you really need to sit > >down and think > >> about it! > >Pardon? > You are making mountains out of molehills! This meeting is *VERY IMPORTANT*. > The first step to making them allies, is making them friends! Which is what we must do! I *still* don't understand why you can't see this is a public relations exercise, and therefore within the portfolio of the PRO... regardless of whether or not Kevin finally attends. > you make it sound like its an all out war on them! No, I've never tried that. > <We must make them think Minds is Great> > how? brainwashing! No, by reasoned argument. > they have a lot to get over and to do this we need to meet them on a friendlier pitch. Yes, like a chat. > >> I think that all the power has gone to your head! > >> Yes you are the Chair of Minds, > >> That does not mean that you get to make all the decisions yourself and to > >tell you the truth, > >> Im a little tired of your almighty rule. > >If I recall correctly, people are also awfully tired of my habit of calling > >meetings. > Thats the first ive heard about that! It's not the first *I've* heard about it! I've heard about it all year! > I wasnt tired of the meetings they were the best way to talk things out! My opinion exactly. > >> If anything its a chance for them to tell us what they are not happy about > >and for us to do the > >> same for them. The attitude that this is a big public relations thing is > >total BS and over the > >> top totally! > >It isn't. > Dave, its not endoctrination that this meeting is about! I would have thought that we want to bring them round to our way of thinking, and our idealogy... and I believe they already have a similar beliefs with regards to the use of computers, but they don't trust us. We must therefore convince them we are trustworthy... and it would *really help* further relations if we convinced them we were great. > its not going to be done in an instant! I never said it was. > we arent going to walk in and say minds is great because ... 1... 2...3 and they are not going > to say WOW we never thought of that before! Wow lets put you back up now! and walk > out of there best of friends and thats basically what you are saying will happen with this or at > least thats the impression that you are giving! Please read what I have said... particularly the second clause of: "We need to make them think we're great, or at least make some headway towards that goal." > >> I told you before that you jump to conclusions, and you just accused me of > >jumping to > >> conclusions about you jumping to conclusions! Then you go and admit it > >yourself! > >Please explain. > I said before to you that you jump to conclusions and then you replied that i was jumping to conclusions about you jumping to conclusions! You've just repeated yourself... you haven't explained. > and a few posts ago you admitted that you tend to address what you think that they are > going to say! hense jumping to conclusions! Is this the post which bore the footer "This is a joke"? > Dave, when youre going to the meeting, no jolt cola please! > Im begging you!! > and dont try and think of what they are going to say. Stay in the present and address what > they are actually saying! I'm afraid I *have to* think of what they are going to say, and prepare for any statement. I will only reply with such when relevant. > >I am dissapointed with this attitude. Quite frankly, it is destructive. This > >list is here for discussion of Minds business, not to insult people. > Stating a fact is not insulting people but if i insulted you i apologise! But insulting people is. > >> I still say that Des would be a better choice! > >Please, explain why. I'm not saying ?Explain why, because you're wrong? but > >rather ?Explain why?. If I am mistaken, please show me how. > understood! > I feel that des is a more levelheaded person than kevin who can tend to get up in a heap > sometimes with what i think that he feels they are saying rather than what they are saying! > Des appears to think about what is being said and address that. > This is my personal opinion. > hense i think that des would be better for this meeting Thank you for explaining. That was what I was asking for, for quite some time. David Barrett

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Re: [Minds-disaster] A word!
by honeybear＠cuddle.co.uk 08 Aug '01

08 Aug '01

>> 2) Yes, I am vice-chair and I have to say that for the last year that I >have done not much, >> not because I didnt want to but because of a monopoly. >Pardon? There has been a monopoly over the last year in the committee, you, phil and kevin! Next year, I know that I will be using my vote to make sure that that does not happen again! Darragh may have done something wrong (im not getting into that argument again) but at least he knew how to listen to people before making decisions about the running of a society. You DONT! >You haven't given a clear argument *against* that, only stating ?I >disagree?. em ... I did if you remember in the email that i sent to you! and i think that ive covered it as well in the last post i made > >I beg your pardon? I didn't say it was a bad idea. DAve that was EXACTLY what you said! you said that "it is a bad idea because it attaches too much importance to the meeting" ... that was your wording! >The implication I was >always drawing was that it would be a good idea... but if you can't see that >your attending would display that we find this meeting very important >*indeed*, I don't know what to do. I could be tempted to call you every name under the sun in four languages, but im not going to! What i was saying all along was that i thought that it was a good idea me going! and you always said that it wasnt! > >> BTW Dave, I asked you for your number before on a few occasions and >offered you mine >> but you told me there was no point. >This was a *long* time ago, wasn't it? I remember it being a good few months >back. We were talking. On Minds. And college was still on. and in the halls and before exams! at least three seperate occasions and i did need your number sometimes, esp when i was talking to noel and couldnt find hide or hair of you around! Bon _______________________________________ "So long, and thanks for all the fish" 20 email addresses from 15,000 domain names - free at http://www.another.com

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[Minds-disaster] Apologies for repeating
by Aidan Delaney 08 Aug '01

08 Aug '01

Hey all, I apologise If I repeat anything anyone else says. I havn't had time to read ALL of the posts. I believe the MINDS> executive (not being part of It myself) has preformed well over the past year. Personally being non-executive sysadmin I felt left out of the loop once or twice, but related this to dave & phil who immediatly apologised and put me in the loop. There seems to be a lot of bickering (from all sides) going on on a list that we should be DISCUSSING on. Please stop. Siobhan may feel that she has not been privy to some of the decision making & as VC that's a big disadvantage to US the committee and the users. I believe now is the time to formalise some method of virtual meeting. As the only committee member not in college (work experience) I know that this will benefit you guys next year. Ok back to business, which 3 people (i presume we settled on 3) should go to the CC meeting. http://www.may.ie

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Re: [Minds-disaster] A word!
by honeybear＠cuddle.co.uk 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

>There has been a monopoly over the last year in the committee, you, phil and kevin! >Next year, I know that I will be using my vote to make sure that that does not happen again! >Darragh may have done something wrong (im not getting into that argument again) but at least he knew how to listen to people before making decisions about the running of a society. You DONT! I must just say one more thing! I dont mean this as an insult to dave or any body else in this years committee. I admit that it is blunt but I feel that it needed to be said so that the same thing does not happen again next year! All major decisions this year have been made by Dave or Phil, This is not how a society should be run! I mean it as constructive criticism but i think the wording of it is a little too hostile! I apologise! >> >>I beg your pardon? I didn't say it was a bad idea. > >DAve that was EXACTLY what you said! >you said that ?it is a bad idea because it attaches too much importance to the meeting? ... that was your wording! > >>The implication I was >>always drawing was that it would be a good idea... but if you can't see that >>your attending would display that we find this meeting very important >>*indeed*, I don't know what to do. > >I could be tempted to call you every name under the sun in four languages, but im not going to! I have to admit that again Im a little emotional. And i apologise! Its just that Dave has always said that Chair and vice chair both attending would 1) put the CC on the defensive immediately 2) put too much importance on the meeting both points that i disagreed with and now he has said that it was a good idea!!! You have to admit that that would get your hackles up a little! I apologise for any offence caused and any emotion left to run wild too long! Bon _______________________________________ "So long, and thanks for all the fish" 20 email addresses from 15,000 domain names - free at http://www.another.com

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[Minds-disaster] The Meeting with The CC
by Bart Busschots 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Hi all, I am writing this message as SU societies officer. THere are a number of points that really need to be made and please don't anyone take this personaly it just has to be said. The most important point is that the job of the chair is NOT to make decisions FOR the society but to chair meetings and impliment decissions made by the societies MEMBER (at a GM) and the COMMITTEE (at a committee meeeting). If there is a decision to be made a meeting MUST be held because no one person has the power to just decide these things. With that in mind I think it should be painfully clear that the committee need to get together (perhaps even over ICQ) and work this out because otherwise something simple like this could cause real resentment within the society and that could be VERY damaging to the society (and harm friendships too). OK that's my thoughts on this problem, please take them on board and remember they are not aimed at anyone in particular but at the group as a whole. Kind Regards, Bart Busschots, Societies Officer 2000-1, NUI Maynooth Students Union. __________________________ Bart Busschots bart.busschots(a)physics.org http://www.voyager.8m.net

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Re: [Minds-disaster] News
by honeybear＠cuddle.co.uk 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

>What is the meeting for then? Because if it's not a ?Hi, we're Minds, and >we're great? meeting then there is no point in having a meeting at all. Okay, you have said before that it was going to be informal therefore, all we need to do is sit down and have a chat with them. you honestly get caught up in a load of BS dave and you really need to sit down and think about it! I think that all the power has gone to your head! Yes you are the Chair of Minds, That does not mean that you get to make all the decisions yourself and to tell you the truth, Im a little tired of your almighty rule. We dont want to turn the meeting into a huge affair, so saying things like "primarily a public relations" exercise ... What we want to do is sit down with them and tell them what has happened in the time since we have been back up, Im assuming that they know that we were up seeing as they pulled our plug again! If anything its a chance for them to tell us what they are not happy about and for us to do the same for them. The attitude that this is a big public relations thing is total BS and over the top totally! I told you before that you jump to conclusions, and you just accused me of jumping to conclusions about you jumping to conclusions! Then you go and admit it yourself! You need someone with a level head to keep you from opening your big mouth and putting your two feet in up to the knees! All I can say is that at least Cian is there and I hope that he will persuade you to keep a lid on it! I still say that Des would be a better choice! Bon _______________________________________ "So long, and thanks for all the fish" Express yourself @ another.com http://another.com

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[Minds-disaster] A word!
by honeybearbon＠another.com 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Okay guys, Just a few words here. 1) I havent been outta the loop as Bart said. Ive been reading the posts and quite frankly, I had nothing to say cause in the vast case all you all were doing was arguing, and nothing very constructive apart from one or two that were clearing up issues. 2) Yes, I am vice-chair and I have to say that for the last year that I have done not much, not because I didnt want to but because of a monopoly. 3) I have to say that I do not agree with daves choice of people for the meeting, and i have told him so before. I have nothing personal against Kevin, in fact i think that he has done a great job over the last year publicising that minds was back up and coming up with innovative ideas for posters. Personally i do not see the need to have the PRO at the meeting with the CC. My choice for the meeting would be Dave, as president, Cian, because hes more levelheaded and someone else who is levelheaded and knows how to talk to people without jumping down their throats. I feel that the vice-chair should be at the meeting because they are supposed to be second in charge and able to step in for the chair. I told Dave this before but he said that this would be a bad idea because this would "attach more importance to the meeting". Something which I have to admit I still dont agree with. That would keep it at three v three. A nice comfortable meeting of minds and the cc with hopefully some respect for each other on both sides. Whether this is what happens or not can only be up to the people who are at the meeting. This is just my opinion about things as they stand. Challenge my ideas or not, its up to you!. BTW Dave, I asked you for your number before on a few occasions and offered you mine but you told me there was no point. For future reference, or if anyone needs me ... its (086) 891 9187 And I know at least two people who are in college all the time, ie Bart and Vish, and would have it if you wanted to contact me and you have my email address. Yours, Bon _______________________________________ "So long, and thanks for all the fish" 20 email addresses from 15,000 domain names - free at http://www.another.com

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Re: [Minds-disaster] News
by honeybear＠cuddle.co.uk 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

>Why should the Public Relations Officer attend a meeting which is primarily >a public relations excercise? The scope of the PRO's portfolio is not >limited to odd posters dotted around the college. That is a fact that I am aware of! But i dont agree that it is primarily a public relations exercise! And besides the title, I'm >sure that Kevin or Des would be well suited to this meeting, for their style >of argument. I think that Des would be better than Kevin for this type of argument! have you talked to either of them and discussed it with them? Bon _______________________________________ "So long, and thanks for all the fish" Email just got more fun @ another.com http://another.com

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Re: [Minds-disaster] News
by David Barrett 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

From: <honeybear(a)cuddle.co.uk> > >As this meeting with CC is no longer going to be a technical one - more one > >of diplomacy - the party of attendees will have to be altered. I obviously > >still need to attend, and I'd also like Cian to remain - his method of > >argument is well suited for this. Phil, however, is more suited for > >technical discussion; and I would prefer that Kevin go in his place. > > > I just wish to state again: > > I disagree!! > > Its nothing personal, but a question, why the PRO? Why should the Public Relations Officer attend a meeting which is primarily a public relations excercise? The scope of the PRO's portfolio is not limited to odd posters dotted around the college. And besides the title, I'm sure that Kevin or Des would be well suited to this meeting, for their style of argument. David Barrett

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[Minds-disaster] News
by David Barrett 24 Jul '01

24 Jul '01

Phil, while on the way to a David Gray concert, caught up with John Keating and talked about the network restrictions with him. As it turns out, the arrangement with FTP was on the condition it was tunneled through SSH. Phil discussed the possibility of allowing shell access through SSH [which is what we SHOULD all have been using, BTW :)] and, according to him, John seemed to be of the opinion that they wouldn't mind certain subnets of the CS Department gaining access to the new machine by this method. He's going to try and sort this out. And, as it's mainly CS students that will be on Minds throughout the college day, we've pretty much gotten everything we need. To those Physics and Engineering students, an SSH server is probably going to be installed on student.cs.may.ie, and student is open to all AFAIK (certainly to Engineering students). And we get minds.may.ie. I'm going to ring John soon (and if he's not there, email him) to convey our gratitude for the assistance he has given the society. I think we all appreciate it. As this meeting with CC is no longer going to be a technical one - more one of diplomacy - the party of attendees will have to be altered. I obviously still need to attend, and I'd also like Cian to remain - his method of argument is well suited for this. Phil, however, is more suited for technical discussion; and I would prefer that Kevin go in his place. On the matter of sponsorship, who shall we approach? David Chairperson, Minds mindschair(a)eircom.net

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